Business redouble not used anymore at high level?

[bluecalm]

Hi,

 

I am watching a lot of hands of top players from vugraph archives. After seeing literally 1000's of hands played by Balicki, Duboin, Versace, Meckstroth I am yet to see straight "You are wrong abour your double" redouble.

Plain: we bid game, you double, we redouble. Does it happen at all in top level bridge ?

I know it happens a lot at my much lower level :P (my partner is especially happy to reach for the blue card).

[jdonn]

Maybe the top players don't make bad penalty doubles?

[Fluffy]

you risk more than you win

[helene_t]

Reasons not to redouble:

- They may escape (doesn't apply often, though. In most auctions they have nowhere to go, and if they have they probably won't trust you).

- They have a reason to double.

- Redouble is played as SOS, not business.

 

There was some years ago a hint in the Dutch BF magazine: redouble more often! The point of the author was that one down doubled vs redoubled don't differ as much as the contract made doubled differs from the contract made redoubled. So if you think there is appr. 50% chance of making, you should redouble.

 

Not sure if that is a good advice to give to intermediate players.

[Gerben42]

NV if you are confident that it's either making or 1 down, you should redouble as for example -100 / -200 is not a big deal but 590 / 880 can be. Vulnerable 200 / 400 gets a bit more tricky.

 

Sunday I had the situation that we were in 5♣ which was doubled, but there was some fear that slam was making. At MP you had to redouble since 650 doesn't beat 920, but 1000 does (redoubled +1). Similarly vulnerable 1400 beats 1370.

[helene_t]

btw Frances wrote a nice list of good reasons to redouble:

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?showtopic=25586&st=37

[hotShot]

I think that jdonn named the main reason, top-player in serious competition don't dbl without a good reason.

 

Playing on BBO I was allowed to make against so many senseless dbl's, that I would want to have a business redbl available.

[Jlall]

Most common time it happens is when they make a lightner X and you are void or something and can redouble.

[Fluffy]

I don't normally play at those levels, but from my experience most of the contracts I've seen redoubled have gone 1 down.

[Cyberyeti]

I remember with fondness in a match we won by 2 IMPS, I opened my usual 9 count with 6 hearts 1♥, we bid 3N, RHO doubled, partner fully suspected I'd psyched, but thought if he didn't redouble on his 16 with all suits stopped questions might be asked. 3Nxx+1 for 1400 was a useful result and if I'd got it totally right could have had 1800.

 

The double was a good holding over dummy's suits and short in mine, we didn't sound like we had a huge amount to spare from the auction.

 

Also had an auction that started 1♥-P-2N(raise to 3 or better)-P-3♥-X-XX where conceding 3♥xx was the best available result for the doubler. (they went for 1700 instead :o, this was a good player having a brain fade)

[kenrexford]

Not top levels, but another reason to redouble in a real game. A few years back, in a regional pairs, I redoubled four contracts in one session, making all four. Only one should have made. But, I'm convinced that the redoubles caused the opponents to panic.

[Cyberyeti]

Not top levels, but another reason to redouble in a real game. A few years back, in a regional pairs, I redoubled four contracts in one session, making all four. Only one should have made. But, I'm convinced that the redoubles caused the opponents to panic.

This is very true, I play a method (fairly common over here) that when they double our weak no trump, we can't play 1Nx, only 1Nxx, and that has made many times when it should not have done.

[PrecisionL]

In the USA Team Trials in the past year or so: both tables played 5♥ redoubled making for just a push at 1000 nV. If either opponent had taken a save they would have won 11 IMPs.

[ArtK78]

A follow-up to Josh's point about top players not making bad doubles.

 

Some years back, I was playing in a Vanderbilt match against Edgar Kaplan and Norman Kay. While Norman lived in my area (Philadelphia) I rarely had the pleasure of playing against him, as he did not play much other than in the top events. Our match was close. One one hand, my partner, as is his wont, overbid to 4♠. I wound up going down 2 tricks vul. Norman had what I though was a clear penalty double, but he did not double. I found out later from his wife, Judy (now Judy Kay-Wolff) that "When Norman doubles you, you are going DOWN!" Apparently, Norman was quite conservative with his penalty doubles.

 

I don't know if all of the top level players are as conservative as Norman was, but given that they are playing against other top level players, that seems to be the way to go (at least at IMPs where a double may indicate a winning line of play when declarer would otherwise be doomed).

[hanp]

I think there was a 7H redoubled in the bridge world last month, was it Ozdil that redoubled? They didn't find the right lead and 7HXX made, they were behind and needed swings.

[Finch]

You see fewer redoubles in serious bridge than you do playing on BBO, but they certainly come up. My team-mates conceded 1800 in the English premier league earlier this year (after one of them had psyched).

[1eyedjack]

Reminds me of a hand I was watching on viewgraph as recently as the last couple of months which also involved a psych, and I think it was a premier league match. 3NT redoubled was the contract I think. The psych had effectively talked them out of a making slam. All they had to do was not to double for a fairly substantial positive swing. The total IMP swing resulting from the double was in the high twenties.

 

[EDIT] The one that I was watching was not a league match (but thankfully I was not on the web client at the time):

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?id=1659919&da=y

 

There was another recent and possibly more interesting occasion: a 4-1 trump fit in the Gold cup semifinal this year:

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?id=1659920&da=y

[billw55]

...

 

All they had to do was not to double for a fairly substantial positive swing.  The total IMP swing resulting from the double was in the high twenties.

 

...

Ouch. It only goes to 24!

[Fluffy]

...

 

All they had to do was not to double for a fairly substantial positive swing.  The total IMP swing resulting from the double was in the high twenties.

 

...

Ouch. It only goes to 24!

48 actually, when you turn a 4000+ win into a 4000+ loss. A vulnerable game doubled that can make but you fail to is already 22 IMP swing.

[1eyedjack]

...

 

All they had to do was not to double for a fairly substantial positive swing.  The total IMP swing resulting from the double was in the high twenties.

 

...

Ouch. It only goes to 24!

I think that the maximum swing that an action might make is 48. This particular aberration cost 26 IMPs (conceding an aggregate net 760 instead of gaining 750, ie 13+13 IMPs)

I accept that it is speculative on my part that West would have stood 3N.

[Tomi2]

Reminds me of a hand I was watching on viewgraph as recently as the last couple of months which also involved a psych, and I think it was a premier league match. 3NT redoubled was the contract I think. The psych had effectively talked them out of a making slam. All they had to do was not to double for a fairly substantial positive swing. The total IMP swing resulting from the double was in the high twenties.

 

[EDIT] The one that I was watching was not a league match (but thankfully I was not on the web client at the time):

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?id=1659919&da=y

 

There was another recent and possibly more interesting occasion: a 4-1 trump fit in the Gold cup semifinal this year:

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?id=1659920&da=y

think both players who douubled deserved their swing

[billw55]

48 actually, when you turn a 4000+ win into a 4000+ loss. A vulnerable game doubled that can make but you fail to is already 22 IMP swing.

 

edit: forgot the doubled part. I think I see what you mean now.

[aguahombre]

Similarly vulnerable 1400 beats 1370.

Hence, the only scoring change in my (bridge) lifetime. Remember when a redouble wouldn't quite do it?