Year End C #11 - Swiss Pairs [MP>VP] - MI/UI

[bluejak]

[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s98532h8d983caq42&w=skqht975dt7cjt965&e=s7haqj632dq64ck73&s=sajt64hk4dakj52c8]399|300|Scoring: MP

         1♥ 3♣

3♥ 3♠ 4♥ 4♠

 P   P   P

 

Result:

4♠/S +1[/hv]

The partnership agreement of 3♣ is spades and diamonds. It was not alerted since North had forgotten.

 

Well?

 

Edited to delete the zero of clubs, South's 14th card. :)

Edited January 4, 2010 by blackshoe

[blackshoe]

It doesn't seem to me that the UI (which is that North has forgotten what he's playing) demonstrably suggests bidding on, so I'd let the result stand.

[nige1]

[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s98532h8d983caq42&w=skqht975dt7cjt965&e=s7haqj632dq64ck73&s=sajt64hk4dakj52c8]399|300|Scoring: MP

         1♥ 3♣

3♥ 3♠ 4♥ 4♠

 P   P   P

Result:4♠/S +1

The partnership agreement of 3♣ is spades and diamonds.  It was not alerted since North had forgotten.

Well?[/hv]

IMO the director should poll South's peers as to what call they would make; and what call North's failure to alert suggests. FWIW, I think South has shown his hand so pass is an LA. The knowledge that North has a real ♠ suit suggests he raise to 4♠, so the director should rule 4♥ by E -2

[aguahombre]

Maybe South doesn't know (legally) that North has a spade suit. What strength range does the systemic 3C bid show? If North had alerted and explained correctly what 3C showed, then voluntarily bid 3S when he could have passed, shouldn't South go to 4 anyway(s)? I don't think South has shown quite this much playing strength.

 

P.s., if North didn't know what 3C meant, would he really have bid 3S? Is that the kind of fit-showing non jumps they play? But, against that, if North did know what the 3C bid showed, and just failed to alert, then 3S was a gross underbid.

 

None of the p.s. stuff above has anything to do with South's game bid. 4S is right no matter what South thinks has happened. The fact that North was smoking his sox in both the disclosure and the bidding doesn't seem to have affected anything.

 

On the other hand, if South had taken advantage of the failure to alert and bid blackwood for spades, then we might question his ethics. (North holding KQXXXX XX XX AXX as shown without the alert of 3C, if he didn't know it showed the pointed suits.)

[Echognome]

For the UI, we'd need a poll, but I imagine that pass is not an LA for south after his partner made a free bid of 3♠.

 

As for the MI, I don't see E/W bidding on over 4♠ given the correct information, but I'd want to ask them if they would have made any different call given the correct information.

[jdonn]

South would never pass over 4♥ IMO, it's either raise or double. And if south did double north would pull. So even if you think there was UI there is no damage, unless E/W can convince us that they would have sacrificed with the correct information.

[MFA]

It annoys me to death that noone who plays these two-suited overcalls ever seems to remember them, even though having this misunderstanding at the second bid of the auction almost always messes up the board completely :angry:.

 

NS can't be kept out of 4♠, but I'm VERY tempted to just say 5♥X -3 because of the MI. Too harsh though, but I'll vote for a weighted score where EW will find the sacrifice say 40% of the time.

[peachy]

This is a rare case where Guessthem was not the cause of damage. It so happens that 4S will be reached regardless of what N thought or S thought. Apparently it was found out that N forgot system (instead of forgetting to alert) when South informed opponents before their lead that there was a failure to alert 3C. No damage, no adjustment, as luck would have it this time.

[bluejak]

Since none of the responses have made any sens at all to me I have finally gone back and looked at the OP. Yes, you guessed it, it is all my fault. I do find the format difficult to enter auctions.

 

Since it will be totally different and since you seem to have found plenty to talk about I shall correct it in a separate thread. My extreme apologies.

[Ant590]

I find it easier to enter the auctions in the main text, and to use the FULLHAND button for entering the hands, scoring type etc only.

 

Then at least you can Preview Post a few times to check all is well.

[bluejak]

I use the Preview Post button a lot when entering spaces in the auctions to make them look right.

 

Perhaps I shall try doing one in the main text, but my guess is the problems will be similar.