jillybean Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Partner opens 1♦, you hold void,xx,AQJxx,AQxxxx 2♣ is gf with ♣'s2♦ is inverted3♠ is a splinter Which path will you take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Splinter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted December 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Splinter why Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 3♠ seems obv....I mean there are 10 counts where we have play for grand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 3♠ seems obv....I mean there are 10 counts where we have play for grand. But does that mean 3♠ is the best way to locate them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Much more so than starting with 2m. I mean, we basically have the following options: 2♣: GF, 4+ ♣2♦: Forcing (GF?) with 4 (5?)+♦3♠: GF, 4(usually 5), and shortness in ♠. Additionally, 3♠ has the advantage that you've got a good shot at stopping in 3N when slam is bad (KQJx KQxx xxx Jx), which you might have trouble doing after starting with 2m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted December 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 1♦:2♣ for us is gf 5+ clubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 i'm curious to know what you might do if you got dealt a 3334 17 count if 2C is always 5+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Much more so than starting with 2m. I mean, we basically have the following options: 2♣: GF, 4+ ♣2♦: Forcing (GF?) with 4 (5?)+♦3♠: GF, 4(usually 5), and shortness in ♠. Additionally, 3♠ has the advantage that you've got a good shot at stopping in 3N when slam is bad (KQJx KQxx xxx Jx), which you might have trouble doing after starting with 2m.I don't see how any bridge player could splinter and then pass 3N. Wow. I am torn: if we have a good inverted method, then I might prefer that, but I suspect that our agreements are not complex. Few non-serious partnerships have complex agreements here. So I splinter, but on the understanding that I ain't through yet! My main issue is what to do over 3N.....I am not passing and wouldn't have thought it possible to pass had someone not suggested it. My partners hold KQJx Qx Kxxx Kxx and are puzzled to go down 2 or 3 tricks in 3N....or do you suggest he diagnose that our splinter was based in part on a heart holding of xx? I could bid 4♠ over 3N, but I doubt that he could find himself able to bid 5♥ very often....so I think I'd bid 4♣ then over 4 red, bid 4♠ and hope that this doesn't show the stiff spade Ace rather than a void. I think he should be able to work out that I took this route out of fear of hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bid_em_up Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Personally, I feel that splintering with this hand takes up too much room. If my methods allow for showing controls after an inverted g/f raise, then that would be my first choice. If the methods do not allow for this, then splinter is my second choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Really Mike? At least the way I play minor suit spinters is that it shows a really good hand, almost a slam force but willing to bail opp a really soft balanced minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Agree with Mike - 3N isn't it for me. I will follow up with 4♣ and 4♠ over 4 red. If I get the least amount of encouragement, I'm driving this to 6. I'll probably give up over 4N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Really Mike? At least the way I play minor suit spinters is that it shows a really good hand, almost a slam force but willing to bail opp a really soft balanced minimum.We don't know the scoring, but it doesn't much matter. Even at mps, passing 3N is flat out weird no matter how you play your splinters. A splinter will usually deliver and hence implies some degree of length/strength in the unbid suits. Especially over 3♠, we expect opener to look at his spade suit and, unless he has unusual shape or extra strength, to rebid 3N with spades well stopped...without worrying about the side suits....which he will expect us to help him with....or to be planning to pull 3N. Put another way: say you splintered and passed 3N and the opps led heart and found KQJx Qx Kxxx Kxx....... down 2 because hearts broke well. Ok...ATB. Does anyone think, for one moment, that opener did anything wrong? Is he supposed to drive beyond 3N with no Aces and KQJx in spades? Clearly the error, if there be one, lies with responder. Surely we can all agree that in 2009 two reasonably competent players should be able to bid these hands to 5♦? If you have any intention of passing 3N, don't splinter....it's silly. Bid 2♣ then raise diamonds....let's say the auction goes 1♦ 2♣ 2N 3♦ 3N....now we have told partner we have interest in a high diamond contract (else 3N not 3♦) and we have also warned him that he needs both minors stopped for 3N. Bingo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 For me, 2♣ denies a void, so I bid 3♠, which shows specifically a void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 3♣ (rockcrusher with ♣ or GF HHxxx+ ♣ and Hxxx+♦) follow with 4♠ exclusion (anything except 4♣/3N shows the fit type) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 I'd bid 2♣. I don't want partner thinking that middle heart honours are good. The most important thing is his club holding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Much more so than starting with 2m. I mean, we basically have the following options:2♣: GF, 4+ ♣2♦: Forcing (GF?) with 4 (5?)+♦3♠: GF, 4(usually 5), and shortness in ♠.Additionally, 3♠ has the advantage that you've got a good shot at stopping in 3N when slam is bad (KQJx KQxx xxx Jx), which you might have trouble doing after starting with 2m. IMO 3♠ = 10, 2♣ = 9, 2♦ = 8, 6♦ = 7. I agree with MikeH that passing 3N may be a poor idea (e.g. opposite ♠ KQJx ♥ xx ♦ Kxxx ♣ Kxx) but the splinter seems the best start. Although Gnasher makes a good case for 2♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 I like 2♣ better than 3♠. I don't like splintering with a two-suited hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 I'd bid 3♠, splinter. I don't want to forgoe the chance of the auction of partner supporting clubs and for us needing to bid some diamonds to definitely play in diamonds in case partner has a heart holding to protect (and thus losing bidding space). And also in case partner bids 2M over our 2♣ in which we might have a hard time setting diamonds and saying shortage in spades. I am definitely moving if partner bids 3NT over my splinter via 4♣. At least this still gives the added chance that if partner bids 4♦, we'd be able to deny a heart cue and bid 4♠ to confirm 1st round control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted December 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Not surprisingly, the people Ive talked to disagree on this too. One who would bid 2♣ so draw information and set the contract in a minor game or slam, they wont splinter with a void. Another who would make an immediate gf raise, the bad thing about splinter with with that shape is that partner will think that minor heart honours are ok. I started with 2♣ and we stopped in 5♦ after1♦:2♣2N:3♦3♥:3♠3N:5♦ AK95,A95,8742,J8void,72,AQJ63,AQ7653 What this hand has shown is that we need to discuss auctions after 1m:2m, I'm not sure if we are exploring for a minor slam or for NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Partner opens 1♦, you hold void,xx,AQJxx,AQxxxx 2♣ is gf with ♣'s2♦ is inverted3♠ is a splinter Which path will you take? 3s splinter seemed easy to me...why....3s says I got long D...short s yes. over 3nt....I got an easy 4c..... Now I will read the posts and see what the heck i am missing...this one seems easy.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 you should bid 4♠ rathert han 3♠ on your sequence jilly. leaping to 5♦ is too pesimistic also IMO I have no strong opinion between 2♣ and 3♠, 3♠ lets partner tell us how much useless spade honnors he has, while 2♣ gets the correct heart message and can splinter later (but too high as your auction showed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 I don't get how people are thinking 2♣ gives the right heart message and 3♠ will overstate the heart values? Isn't 3♠ just saying to partner to like his heart+diamond+club values, and given we have ♦AQJ and ♣AQ, how many non-spade values are there that's left? And when we splinter, we are still able to deny a heart control to tell partner what the situation is if he has the worst case scenario of ♠Axxx ♥QJx ♦Kxxx ♣Kx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted December 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 you should bid 4♠ rathert han 3♠ on your sequence jilly. leaping to 5♦ is too pesimistic also IMO Is 4♠ exclusionKC if we are playing that, otherwise a void splinter? 5♦ is a Im not sure what to do next bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 3♠ is my least favorite choice because partner is very likely to bid 3NT over that and I'm on a total guess whether or not to pass it (well of course I won't pass it, but now I can never get to 3NT when it's right). I think it's wise to try to avoid splinter when there is such a huge disparity between the side suits, not to mention the usual objections to splintering with a void. I like 2♦ best. I can show my support, show my clubs next, and most importantly hear partner make several more bids at a low level (which a splinter completely preempts). 2♣ is fine but I like showing my support right away, and 2♦ means my second round bid will be cheaper. I don't think partner will ever expect support THIS good if we don't start with a diamond raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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