shackled with drury again

[jillybean]

[hv=d=s&v=n&s=s2hk7643d4caj8765]133|100|Scoring: MP

P (P) 1♠ (P)

?[/hv]

 

Playing Rev Drury, how do you bid this?

 

I've only recently added drury and quite honestly, Im not having much fun with it at all! What is the down side, other than being unable to stop in 2♠ of playing a natural 2♣ here and using 3♠ as a limit raise?

[dcohio]

If you have it, a (semi)forcing 1NT here is perfect. If you aren't playing (semi)forcing 1NT over majors, consider playing it.

[nigel_k]

I didn't like Drury for a long time but am a convert now. The alternatives are 1NT or 2♥ which are both unpleasant, but if you respond 2♣ natural and partner bids 2♦ it's really not that much better.

 

If playing a weak 2♦ opening I think it's better to use 2♦ as Drury because there will be fewer hands you want to respond a natural 2♦. If not playing a weak 2♦ then maybe you would use two suited openings and would not be in this situation anyway.

[Winstonm]

I bid 1NT regardless of system in use.

 

In the long run Drury will be a net plus IMO.

[jjbrr]

If you have it, a (semi)forcing 1NT here is perfect. If you aren't playing (semi)forcing 1NT over majors, consider playing it.

It is far, far from perfect, but imo it is the best bid with the given hand.

[jdonn]

Why in the world would anyone bid 1NT on this 5-6 hand as a passed hand? Why wouldn't you bid 2♣ if you could or 2♥ otherwise? I do not at all see what 1NT gets you, other than a big fat guess (or headache) over almost everything partner rebids.

 

Don't give up on drury.

[Siegmund]

Congratulations, jillybean on discovering Drury occasionally does harm and virtually never gains. :P (Yes, I know I am in a minority, on a 2/1-centric forum. )

 

Still, on the posted hand, you aren't going to have THAT much fun even if you're not playing Drury.

[rogerclee]

Congratulations, jillybean on discovering Drury occasionally does harm and virtually never gains. :P (Yes, I know I am in a minority, on a 2/1-centric forum. )

 

Still, on the posted hand, you aren't going to have THAT much fun even if you're not playing Drury.

To call you "in the minority" would be an understatement. If I disagreed with virtually 100% of expert 2/1 players on the value of a bidding agreement, I would hope that I would be able to reconsider my position.

[dcohio]

If you have it, a (semi)forcing 1NT here is perfect.  If you aren't playing (semi)forcing 1NT over majors, consider playing it.

It is far, far from perfect, but imo it is the best bid with the given hand.

Wouldn't the best bid for the given hand be the perfect bid?

 

:P

[peachy]

Congratulations, jillybean on discovering Drury occasionally does harm and virtually never gains. :P (Yes, I know I am in a minority, on a 2/1-centric forum. )

 

Still, on the posted hand, you aren't going to have THAT much fun even if you're not playing Drury.

Do you know of even ONE person who agrees with the statement you posted about Drury?

[pooltuna]

Congratulations, jillybean on discovering Drury occasionally does harm and virtually never gains. :) (Yes, I know I am in a minority, on a 2/1-centric forum. )

 

Still, on the posted hand, you aren't going to have THAT much fun even if you're not playing Drury.

To call you "in the minority" would be an understatement. If I disagreed with virtually 100% of expert 2/1 players on the value of a bidding agreement, I would hope that I would be able to reconsider my position.

he is not alone though. In a weak opening hand system (i.e. ANY eleven) Drury is unnecessary

[Siegmund]

It would have been fairer of me to say that it does solve some problems with 3-card limit raises by passed hands, which can be avoided in other ways (for instance, opening lighter in 1st and 2nd than is fashionable in 2/1). I know only a handful of 2/1 players who don't use it (but many people who choose not to play 2/1 who also choose not to use Drury.)

 

I can't help imagining that if OP isn't entirely sure she likes Drury, she may not be entirely sure she likes a few other things about the modern 2/1 approach.

[jjbrr]

If you have it, a (semi)forcing 1NT here is perfect.  If you aren't playing (semi)forcing 1NT over majors, consider playing it.

It is far, far from perfect, but imo it is the best bid with the given hand.

Wouldn't the best bid for the given hand be the perfect bid?

 

:)

No...

[Winstonm]

Why in the world would anyone bid 1NT on this 5-6 hand as a passed hand? Why wouldn't you bid 2♣ if you could or 2♥ otherwise? I do not at all see what 1NT gets you, other than a big fat guess (or headache) over almost everything partner rebids.

 

Don't give up on drury.

I wouldn't mind bidding 2C planning to follow with 3C if not playing Drury, but I don't see any advantage at all to bidding a bad heart suit at the 2-level.

 

The advantage of a non-forcing NT is that I limit my hand in one bid, and if we get lucky enough to find a fit over partner's rebid I can then be very aggressive without overstating my hand.

 

It is like (I believe) Al Roth used to say in Master Solvers: If I can only get past this round of bidding...

[Winstonm]

Congratulations, jillybean on discovering Drury occasionally does harm and virtually never gains. :wacko: (Yes, I know I am in a minority, on a 2/1-centric forum. )

 

Still, on the posted hand, you aren't going to have THAT much fun even if you're not playing Drury.

To call you "in the minority" would be an understatement. If I disagreed with virtually 100% of expert 2/1 players on the value of a bidding agreement, I would hope that I would be able to reconsider my position.

he is not alone though. In a weak opening hand system (i.e. ANY eleven) Drury is unnecessary

It is difficult to estimate the millions of matchpoints Barry Crane won by basically playing Drury in all seats - opening light and often and still being able to stop at the 2-level was a hallmark of the "Crane" system.

[jdonn]

It is like (I believe) Al Roth used to say in Master Solvers: If I can only get past this round of bidding...

It's not like that at all. That refers to a situation where as long as no disaster happens this round you are all set next round. But you will have no idea what bid will work best on the next round after 1NT.

 

And your hand is already limited. You didn't open it.

[pooltuna]

Congratulations, jillybean on discovering Drury occasionally does harm and virtually never gains. :wacko: (Yes, I know I am in a minority, on a 2/1-centric forum. )

 

Still, on the posted hand, you aren't going to have THAT much fun even if you're not playing Drury.

To call you "in the minority" would be an understatement. If I disagreed with virtually 100% of expert 2/1 players on the value of a bidding agreement, I would hope that I would be able to reconsider my position.

he is not alone though. In a weak opening hand system (i.e. ANY eleven) Drury is unnecessary

It is difficult to estimate the millions of matchpoints Barry Crane won by basically playing Drury in all seats - opening light and often and still being able to stop at the 2-level was a hallmark of the "Crane" system.

oh so he had a built-in "psychic control" which no one else used because rightly or wrongly everyone else thought it was illegal in the ACBL

[andy_h]

We're a passed hand and we have 5-6. If you're not responding 2♥ with this, then I reckon you are not using this bid enough. Yes, it's true that it's not perfect with this suit but nothing is perfect. I remember Justin advocated of using 2♦ as the drury with 2♣ and 2♥ as heart bids?

[Winstonm]

Congratulations, jillybean on discovering Drury occasionally does harm and virtually never gains. :wacko: (Yes, I know I am in a minority, on a 2/1-centric forum. )

 

Still, on the posted hand, you aren't going to have THAT much fun even if you're not playing Drury.

To call you "in the minority" would be an understatement. If I disagreed with virtually 100% of expert 2/1 players on the value of a bidding agreement, I would hope that I would be able to reconsider my position.

he is not alone though. In a weak opening hand system (i.e. ANY eleven) Drury is unnecessary

It is difficult to estimate the millions of matchpoints Barry Crane won by basically playing Drury in all seats - opening light and often and still being able to stop at the 2-level was a hallmark of the "Crane" system.

oh so he had a built-in "psychic control" which no one else used because rightly or wrongly everyone else thought it was illegal in the ACBL

Not at all. Barry was one whale of a player and Keri could play the spots off the cards (still can I bet),

 

I always found Barry and Keri to be extremely ethical and courteous players.

[Winstonm]

We're a passed hand and we have 5-6. If you're not responding 2♥ with this, then I reckon you are not using this bid enough. Yes, it's true that it's not perfect with this suit but nothing is perfect. I remember Justin advocated of using 2♦ as the drury with 2♣ and 2♥ as heart bids?

First, is there anyone who doesn't consider responder's 2/1 forcing for 1 round unless opener has a sub-minimum third-seat opening? If so, what will a 2-heart bid accomplish that 1N does not except get you higher? Finally, as of the best-case scenario what do you fancy the chances of partner holding exactly 3 hearts and your final contract one that makes?

[Winstonm]

It is like (I believe) Al Roth used to say in Master Solvers: If I can only get past this round of bidding...

It's not like that at all. That refers to a situation where as long as no disaster happens this round you are all set next round. But you will have no idea what bid will work best on the next round after 1NT.

 

And your hand is already limited. You didn't open it.

I think I am much better set second round than first after 1N - partner knows now my strength (6-10): he knows whether or not there is much chance for game.

 

If he rebids spades, I can pass and not feel bad about it.

If he rebids hearts/clubs, I can jump aggressively without overstating my high card strength (thus indicating lots of shape)

If he rebids 2D, it sucks. But then it always would have.

If he rebids 2N, I can now try 3H and follow with 4C over 3N if I so wish.

 

And finally, if he passes 1N, I will wish I had signed off in clubs. :wacko:

[nige1]

At partners' insistence, I've recently started to experiment with Drury. It seems to be a license to open light or psych in third seat. The American two-way idea ( 2♣ = 3, 2♦ = 4 card raise) seems excellent. I've also played and can recommend ...

S trong

N otrump

A fter

P assing

Even more extreme, in our 1960's version of Nottingham Club, no matter which seat opened, we played that 1N was the only non-jump response that was forcing.

[blackshoe]

For two way Drury, I've also seen

 

2♣: 4 trumps, 6-11(12)

...2♦: full opener

......2M: raise to 2 with four trump

2♦: 3 trumps, limit raise.

 

The expert who taught me this didn't have any fancy name for it. I called it "reverse two-way reverse Drury". :) I think he picked it up in Toronto.

[Winstonm]

FWIW, I'm Shackled With Drury Again could be sung to the tune of Gene Autry's "I'm Back in the Saddle Again".

[jdonn]

I think I am much better set second round than first after 1N - partner knows now my strength (6-10): he knows whether or not there is much chance for game.

If you bid 2♥ partner knows your strength (8-11), and thus (opposite this smaller range than 6-10 and having heard us bid a suit) knows better than after 1NT whether or not there is much chance for game.

 

If he rebids spades, I can pass and not feel bad about it.

You must feel worse than if you had bid 2♥, since someone who did that could also pass 2♠ but know they haven't missed a heart fit.

If he rebids hearts/clubs, I can jump aggressively without overstating my high card strength (thus indicating lots of shape)

Of course supporting partner doesn't gain over bidding the suits yourself.

If he rebids 2D, it sucks.  But then it always would have.

Not if you would have preempted the bid. :) He may bid 3♦ over 2♥ but that shows a better hand at least.

If he rebids 2N, I can now try 3H and follow with 4C over 3N if I so wish.

Rather than bidding hearts, then clubs over 2NT, then not having to decide if you so wish to bypass 3NT to show your suits.

 

And finally, if he passes 1N, I will wish I had signed off in clubs.  :)

Wait I thought we were playing drury. Someone is STILL not convinced?