luke warm Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Those appear to be fair questions. At the same time, I also believe it is fair (although extremely difficult to quantify) to say there would have to be administrative savings by doing away with the necessity of health care insurers and employee health care plans. medicare pays states and/or regional companies to administer benefits paid for meda and medb (and even medc and medd) claims... if it didn't do so, of if it did so itself, those costs would not go away... many are of the opinion that they would increase You are jumping in mid-discussion. I am not talking about the effects of changes within the status quo but in dumping the existing system entirely for a Canadian-style health care system. There would be no need for Medicare - everyone is covered. That eliminates the preponderance of the administrative costs and surely removes all the administrative costs of inherent in health insurance and in employee plans. It is fact that Canada has administrative costs less than 1/3 of those in the U.S. They also spend per capita less than 1/2 of what the U.S. pays. I suspect there is more than mere correlation between those figures. ahh... ok... in la, the admin costs (which i realize has many definitions) run <4% - this includes all equipment and pay for those working at the agency that administers the insurance... as a practical matter it means that $.96 of every dollar taken in premiums is available to pay benefits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassedOut Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 ahh... ok... in la, the admin costs (which i realize has many definitions) run <4% - this includes all equipment and pay for those working at the agency that administers the insurance... as a practical matter it means that $.96 of every dollar taken in premiums is available to pay benefits Yes, surely the right way to evaluate health insurance efficiency is by the percentage of the funds collected that is available to pay claims. Other approaches to making health care more efficient need understandable metrics also, and I think that in many cases they should be based on overall outcomes. We've just got to get a handle on these costs. Ken has discussed the problem of unnecessary tests and medications, which boost the cost of care unacceptably (in my opinion). I consider it important to define (based on actual outcomes) which tests will be paid for and which will not. Physicians would not be subject to malpractice suits for failing to authorize tests not called for by those guidelines. This appraoch would also remove the profit motive behind buying expensive equipment and then using it to test every tom, dick, and harry who comes into the office. I know that this is not a simple thing to implement and that there will be bumps on the road. But we just have to get going with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrei Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 In Germany, we pay a little bit more in taxes ...is it twice more "a little bit" ? ok, maybe twice more is as exaggeration, but "a little bit more" it is too. edit again: it seems that twice more might be quite accurate: a 75000 euros/year will pay 33% income tax a 75000 US/year will pay 20% income tax if you factor in the sales tax, 19% versus 4%-8% you are getting there ... Lol, maybe you should start by comparing similar incomes, instead of comparing a 75k $ salary with a 105k $ salary.I am wondering if you try to be sarcastic, but whatever ...75,000 Eur != $75,000 US. 75,000 Eur. = $108,000 US (approx. based on exchange rate of 1.438) This is what is meant by.....comparing similar incomes, imo.really?you are earning your money in US and spending them in Germany? anyway, you can multiply the Euros with 1,43 to get the american equivalent, but then everything will cost you almost double in germany. just 2 examples: same VW Jetta TDI : Germany starts at 23000, in US 23000 same VW Tiguan (2.0 TSI) : Germany starts at 28000, US starts at 23000 do the same exercise with clothes, food, gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 I think trying to run a multi trillion dollar govt run program without huge input by politicians is a pipe dream. Guidelines and most importantly their exceptions by definition will be political in nature. We have discussed this many times. The demand for health care is unlimited, the supply is limited. One can simple switch the rationing methods from capital markets and put the decision making into politicians hands. Nonpolitical health committees do not exist and never will. Would anyone really want a committee to run health care that the voters had no say in? If posters are going to suggest removing the profit motive fair enough but what motive do you really think you can replace it with in the health care system? Virtue? Alot of these posts always seem to come down to one thing, lets not run a health care system motivated by greed or self interest but one based on being virtuous. Some may even prefer to call it Science based medical practice based on virtue motivation. This is opposed to a system say based on greed, self interest and using science to further motivate/reward that self interest. Milton Friedman on Greed vs. Virtue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobowolf Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 In Germany, we pay a little bit more in taxes ...is it twice more "a little bit" ? ok, maybe twice more is as exaggeration, but "a little bit more" it is too. edit again: it seems that twice more might be quite accurate: a 75000 euros/year will pay 33% income tax a 75000 US/year will pay 20% income tax if you factor in the sales tax, 19% versus 4%-8% you are getting there ... Lol, maybe you should start by comparing similar incomes, instead of comparing a 75k $ salary with a 105k $ salary.I am wondering if you try to be sarcastic, but whatever ...75,000 Eur != $75,000 US. 75,000 Eur. = $108,000 US (approx. based on exchange rate of 1.438) This is what is meant by.....comparing similar incomes, imo.really?you are earning your money in US and spending them in Germany? anyway, you can multiply the Euros with 1,43 to get the american equivalent, but then everything will cost you almost double in germany. just 2 examples: same VW Jetta TDI : Germany starts at 23000, in US 23000 same VW Tiguan (2.0 TSI) : Germany starts at 28000, US starts at 23000 do the same exercise with clothes, food, gas. Income tax rates increase as a function of income in the US. It has nothing to do with the exchange rate. If you want to compare someone making 75,000 Euros with an American, you have to compare him with an American making over $100,000 a year, and that person is paying a higher percentage of his income to the federal government than an American making $75,000 a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrei Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 In Germany, we pay a little bit more in taxes ...is it twice more "a little bit" ? ok, maybe twice more is as exaggeration, but "a little bit more" it is too. edit again: it seems that twice more might be quite accurate: a 75000 euros/year will pay 33% income tax a 75000 US/year will pay 20% income tax if you factor in the sales tax, 19% versus 4%-8% you are getting there ... Lol, maybe you should start by comparing similar incomes, instead of comparing a 75k $ salary with a 105k $ salary.I am wondering if you try to be sarcastic, but whatever ...75,000 Eur != $75,000 US. 75,000 Eur. = $108,000 US (approx. based on exchange rate of 1.438) This is what is meant by.....comparing similar incomes, imo.really?you are earning your money in US and spending them in Germany? anyway, you can multiply the Euros with 1,43 to get the american equivalent, but then everything will cost you almost double in germany. just 2 examples: same VW Jetta TDI : Germany starts at 23000, in US 23000 same VW Tiguan (2.0 TSI) : Germany starts at 28000, US starts at 23000 do the same exercise with clothes, food, gas. Income tax rates increase as a function of income in the US. It has nothing to do with the exchange rate. If you want to compare someone making 75,000 Euros with an American, you have to compare him with an American making over $100,000 a year, and that person is paying a higher percentage of his income to the federal government than an American making $75,000 a year. my last post on this subject, waste of time .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Income_T..._By_Country.svg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdanno Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 my last post on this subject, waste of time .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Income_T..._By_Country.svg That's not a reasonable comparison as it includes all "social security taxes", i.e. including unemployment insurance (probably comparable to USA), retirement plan (much more generous than in the USA) and mandatory health insurance (which is considerably cheaper than a comparable private plan would be in the USA, and which is not included in the USA figures). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradd Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 I think this board should abolish nested quotes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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