Comment the auction / Suggest improvements

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

the following hand came up in a bidding session with my p,

I am still meditating, who was responsible for missing the best

contract, and how to improve the auction.

 

You play weak NT, with a standard agreement set, Stayman, Transfer,

Smolen, Texas.

 

All Red, West being dealer, opponents pass through out

 

J6

K8

AK54

QJ832

 

-

 

AKQ743

A732

Q10

A

 

Our auction

 

1NT - 2H

2S - 3H

3NT - 4S

 

Obviously one wants to be in 6S, you may not like the 1NT

opening bid, but I doubt that this is the reason, why we missed

the small slam.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[awm]

South clearly needs to do more. He can see 31-33 high card points and he has a running suit and a lot of controls. His hand is closer to forcing slam than to signing off in game.

 

On the south cards, I rather like transfer followed by splinter in clubs, followed by a club cuebid if partner tries signing off in spades, then giving up in 5♠ if partner repeatedly fails to cue diamonds (partner could have xx KQJx xxx KQJx for example).

 

This gives up on the hearts, but that could easily be good; there are many hands like:

 

Jx

Kxxx

AKx

Qxxx

 

where 6♠ or 6NT is virtually cold but 6♥ fails whenever hearts don't behave. This happens a lot when you have a very strong six-card suit and a fairly weak four-card suit.

[TylerE]

Eh? I want to be in grand on these cards at most forms of scoring. Just need no 3rd round heart ruff, or 3-2 trumps, although you can't combine the chances. Getting there might be tricky

 

Assuming 1NT is 12-14, I hate 1N. Far too good, and 2-2 in the majors isn't very attractive either.

 

I'd propose:

 

1♦ - 1♠

2♣ - 2♥ (4sf)

3♣ - 3♠

4♠ - 5♣

5♦ - 5♥

6♦ - 7♠

[hrothgar]

I agree with AWM that 3♥ isn't appealing. Even so, splintering with a stiff ace doesn't tickle my fancy. I suspect that Adam is recommending this bid based on a strong desire to elicit a 4♦, however, I'm not sure this makes sense given his intention to bid on after a 4♠ sign off.

 

You're playing both Texas and Jacoby, which means that auctions like

 

1N - 2♥

2♠ - 4♠

 

show slam interest with a single suited hand.

 

Personally, I'm tempted to just transfer to Spades and then blast 6...

[Fluffy]

North's hand is maybe worth another move, but clearly south should do more as awm suggests.

 

 

My bididng with your methods would be:

 

1NT-2♣

2♦-3♥

3NT-4♣

 

Now 4♣ is a cue with autofit in spades and slam try, and when partner cues diamonds you are on your way to slam.

 

 

south's bidding would be fine with a slightly weaker hand suck as misisng ♠Q, inviting to play slam if the hand fits well only.

[Phil]

Agree with 1N, just like I would agree with a strong NT with another Q.

 

I think Tyler's auction is rather concocted and I'm sure I would bid that way with a 1=2=5=5.

 

South clearly needs to do more.

 

I can't see a realistic sequence to 7. Adam's splinter might get you close but North has to be worried about 3rd round diamonds.

[pooltuna]

Hi,

 

the following hand came up in a bidding session with my p,

I am still meditating, who was responsible for missing the best

contract, and how to improve the auction.

 

You play weak NT, with a standard agreement set, Stayman, Transfer,

Smolen, Texas.

 

All Red, West being dealer, opponents pass through out

 

J6

K8

AK54

QJ832

 

-

 

AKQ743

A732

Q10

A

 

Our auction

 

1NT - 2H

2S - 3H

3NT - 4S

 

Obviously one wants to be in 6S, you may not like the 1NT

opening bid, but I doubt that this is the reason, why we missed

the small slam.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

Having shown at least 9 cards in the majors wouldn't a 4♣ qbid/3NT imply 6♠ and very serious slam interest?

[awm]

I'm not sure why 4♣ over 3NT can't be:

 

(1) Natural with a 5404 or even 5413 pattern and slam interest.

(2) A slam interested 5♠/5♥ hand.

 

Certainly if this call was somehow an unambiguous slam try with spades as trump it would be a good bid, but I think this is wishful thinking on the part of many posters.

[pooltuna]

I'm not sure why 4♣ over 3NT can't be:

 

(1) Natural with a 5404 or even 5413 pattern and slam interest.

(2) A slam interested 5♠/5♥ hand.

 

Certainly if this call was somehow an unambiguous slam try with spades as trump it would be a good bid, but I think this is wishful thinking on the part of many posters.

Maybe weak NT is different but don't 54xy hands start with Stayman. There are various ways to show 55xy not sure why you are making me use this one.

[gnasher]

The tricky part is discovering both the heart ruff and the hird diamond trick.

 

It appears that you have two ways to show spades and hearts and then bid 4♣:

  1NT-2♥

  2♠-3♥

  3NT-4♣

and

  1NT-2♣

  2♦-3♥

  3NT-4♣

I think one of these should be natural, with a 5413 or 5404 shape, and the other a cue-bid with a 6-4.

 

After a 4♣ cue-bid, it might continue

4♦-4♥

5♦-6♦ (not often that you get to cue-bid a queen)

7♠ (knowing that the heart ruff will provide the 13th trick)

 

That would also get you to 7NT opposite Jx Kxx AKJx Qxxx.

[jdonn]

Well the only thing I have to add is it's clear to me responder has a slam force, no matter whether and how you show your suits.

[aguahombre]

question not asked, but with 2/1 we could only get to 6S single-dummy. With the given structure, I agree with Phil that 6S is realistic (somewhat easy) and that 7S is not going to happen. I haven't learned the supersystems which can do it.

[Fluffy]

I'm not sure why 4♣ over 3NT can't be:

 

(1) Natural with a 5404 or even 5413 pattern and slam interest.

(2) A slam interested 5♠/5♥ hand.

 

Certainly if this call was somehow an unambiguous slam try with spades as trump it would be a good bid, but I think this is wishful thinking on the part of many posters.

If you are talking after smolen

 

smolen is a convention to make opener play 4-4 major fits, so 5-5 cannot be. 5-5 transfer to one suit then bid the other. This is the way I learnt, though it was more standard.

 

5404 is a problem, but 6-4 majors is just much more likelly. when I have fitless hands I tend to use the balanced NT HCP table. You can use 4NT and 5NT to find club fits if there is any. Not perfect I guess.

 

 

I also have the agreement that shortness goes over cuebid, so 4♣ reopening would always be shortness control for me.

 

 

EDIT: Just noticed: south can bid 5♣ over 3NT faking a void, if it is not voidwood but just void showing looks like a reasonable option as well.

[Cyberyeti]

If I'm going to open 1N, it would have to be one I'd open on a 15 count with this hand, the trick taking potential is too great to open a 12-14.

 

I'd kick off with 1♣ and rebid 1N.

 

Our auction would go:

 

1♣-1♠

1N(15-bad19)-2♣(crowhurst)

2♦(15-16, not 3♠, not 4♥)-3♠(GF, cue pls)

4♦(A or K)-4♥

4♠-5♣

5♦-5N(anything else)

6♥-?

 

Now the decision has been reached.

 

Partner is known to hold ♥K, ♦AK, not ♣K.

 

His shape is 2245 or more likely 2335 (we open 1♦ with a 2344), you are unlikely to have enough entries to ruff the clubs out, so are unlikely to make this contract if he's 2335 unless he has ♥Q (or ♥J and a finesse/ruffing ♣ finesse). If he's 2245 the ♦J or a ruff will do you. Tough decision, 7 can't be without play (ruffing club finesse at worst) if partner has a 15 count, but is quite likely to be 50% ish.

 

I think the worst possible 15 count is xx, KJx, AKJ, QJxxx where it's a 3-2 break and ♥Q coming down or the ruffing club finesse.

 

Of course partner could have J10, KQ, AKJx, xxxxx where you have 14 on top.

 

I think it's a tight decision whether to bid 6 or 7, but you are not in a bad place to take the decision.

[andy_h]

I also agree South needs to do more. With a suit, shape and controls like that, it should hardly be criminal to further investigate a slam and be at the 5level at least.

 

While we are talking structure, this is what my partner and I play:

1NT-2♣

2♦-3M

3NT-

 

4♣/4♦: 54(40) Slam try

4♥/4♠: 54(31) Slam try

 

1NT-2♣

2♦-

 

4♣/4♦: Delayed texas, 64 Slam Try/Sign off

4♥/4♠: Slam try with 4♣/4♦

[kenrexford]

Echo the last post, but with slightly different structure. My methods:

 

1NT-P-2♣-P-

2♦-P-?

 

3M = Smolen. If Opener declines the long major (3NT), then Texas is on (still), with at least mild slam interest. (To show 4-5-4-0, having bid 2♣ and then 3♠, you now bid 4♥, as 4♦ would show 6♥/4♠ and at least mild slam interest.)

 

Texas on, showing weak 6-4 (non-slammish).

 

1NT-P-2♣-P-

2♦-P-4♣ = quantitative

[whereagles]

South could have bid 1NT-6♠.

 

North could have moved over 4♠ - he has fillers for the majors and AK in a side suit. The only thing that's missing is the club control, so it's worth a final try in 5♦.

[ONEferBRID]

J6

K8

AK54

QJ832

 

 

AKQ743

A732

Q10

A

 

1NT - 2H!

2S - 3H

3NT - 4C ( natural, not Gerber )

4S - 5S ( asking for at least 2nd Rnd Ctrl in Diam ( the unbid suit )

6S

[andy_h]

J6

K8

AK54

QJ832

 

 

AKQ743

A732

Q10

A

 

1NT - 2H!

2S - 3H

3NT - 4C ( natural, not Gerber )

4S - 5S ( asking for at least 2nd Rnd Ctrl in Diam ( the unbid suit )

6S

If 4♣ is natural, why is North bidding 4♠?

[ONEferBRID]

J6

K8

AK54

QJ832

 

 

AKQ743

A732

Q10

A

 

1NT - 2H!

2S - 3H

3NT - 4C ( natural, not Gerber )

4S - 5S ( asking for at least 2nd Rnd Ctrl in Diam ( the unbid suit )

6S

If 4♣ is natural, why is North bidding 4♠?

4C just not Gerber....

hopefully pard will still get the picture after:

 

3NT - 4C

5C - 5S

6S

[gwnn]

5♠ sounds like a ♠ control and grand try for clubs to me....

[ONEferBRID]

Ok, how about :

1NT - 2H!

2S - 4C! ( splinter w/ 6+cards ♠ )

4D ( courtesy cue ) - 6S

[gwnn]

sorry don't mean to pick on you but opener has already upgraded once and now partner splintered in his QJxxx suit, doesn't look like he should cue, even if he wants to be courteous.

 

:)

[dicklont]

You play weak NT, with a standard agreement set, Stayman, Transfer, Smolen, Texas.

 

J6

K8

AK54

QJ832

 

-

 

AKQ743

A732

Q10

A

I can use my new toy now: Quest transfers

 

1NT - 2C (1)

2D - 3H (2)

3NT (3) - 3H (4)

4S - 4NT (5)

 

1) Stayman

2) Transfer for spades, 5+/4 invite or better

3) Accept invitation with doubleton spades

4) Retransfer, 6+ spades

5) RKCB

 

After RKCB it goes to 6♠.

I could ask for kings, but I can't find out the third round control in hearts.

[lamford]

Assuming 1NT is 12-14, I hate 1N. Far too good, and 2-2 in the majors isn't very attractive either.

 

I'd propose:

 

1♦ - 1♠

Zia was in the audience in Vugraph once at a US nationals, and he was quick to condemn a similar 1D bid with 4-5 in the minors, describing such a distortion of suit lengths in a hand that could not reverse as an American malaise.

 

I also dislike 1NT, so have to start 1C - 1S, and now think that Cyberyeti's 1NT rebid is far from abominable, even playing it as 15-17, just because the alternative 2C is so ugly.

 

Now, either 2C checkback, or 2D NMF, followed by 3S will show six spades forcing on the South hand. North will just raise to 4S, but South will use RKCB and ask for specific kings; there was a toy used in the Lederer now, whereby North responds to 5NT with 6C showing either the king of clubs or the two red kings. South can tell it is likely to be the latter, and might have a shot at the grand. Even if it is the former, North has at least Jx QJx AJx KQJxx and grand is still good.