No right to be dummy?

[cicus]

In our regular MP pairs championship we play 2 boards in every change. The 1st board took very long and we almost ran out of time picking up the second. Bidding was brief, we landed in 5H, I became dummy. They cashed an ace and were about to cash another ace when the TD came up and ordered me to carry the 1st board to the next table saying the change was already called. I refused and we got a procedural penalty of half a board because of not obeying the TD order who only wanted to ensure that the tournament goes on smoothly.

 

I find this very strange, I thought dummy had full rights to participate in the game, he may even prevent an irregularity (remember the Versace case?). Besides, what if dummy had to go to the toilet, will they force declarer to interrupt playing in order to forward the boards?

[Codo]

There are people who know the rules, they will answer for that part, but:

 

Your table was late which makes other players wait for you as opponents, for the seats they should take and for the boards and which gives the TD extra work.

 

He asks you to share the burden to make up fot the delay yoor table caused.. You refused because you do not want to lose your dummy rights.

 

I really do not like your attitude towards this part of the game. You do not care about the rights your table violated by being late but just about the minor issues of your own rights as dummy.

 

So I love the way the TD handled the issue and hope that his descission was perfectly legal.

 

Sorry if this is not the answer you wanted to hear.

[cicus]

There are people who know the rules, they will answer for that part, but:

 

Your table was late which makes other players wait for you as opponents, for the seats they should take and for the boards and which gives the TD extra work.

 

He asks you to share the burden to make up fot the delay yoor table caused.. You refused because you do not want to lose your dummy rights.

 

I really do not like your attitude towards this part of the game. You do not care about the rights your table violated by being late but just about the minor issues of your own rights as dummy.

 

So I love the way the TD handled the issue and hope that his descission was perfectly legal.

 

Sorry if this is not the answer you wanted to hear.

Thanks for the reply. I asked for opinions, not approvals.

 

OTOH, I did not have my dummy rights on my mind. I simply did not want to miss the play. I prefer playing and kibitzing to carrying boards.

[shyams]

OTOH, I did not have my dummy rights on my mind. I simply did not want to miss the play. I prefer playing and kibitzing to carrying boards.

How would you feel if you found out you broke a Bridge Law by declining to move the board when asked by Director?

 

If you were sitting in the North seat, you have an obligation to move the boards on time in any case. And as per Law 8 A. 2., once Director asks you to move a board you need to do it -- even if you are not North.

[helene_t]

Agree with Codo.

[gnasher]

The director has the right to tell you to move the board:

1. The Director instructs the players as to the proper movement of boards and progression of contestants.

2. Unless the Director instructs otherwise, the North player at each table is responsible for moving the boards just completed at his table to the proper table for the following round.

If you refuse, he has the right to penalise you for it:

The Director, in addition to implementing the rectifications in these Laws, may also assess procedural penalties for any offence that unduly delays or obstructs the game, inconveniences other contestants, violates correct procedure, or requires the award of an adjusted score at another table.

...

Offences Subject to Procedural Penalty

...

failure to comply promptly with tournament regulations or with instructions of the Director.

Since you want opinions, here is mine: I think your attitude is unbelievably selfish. If the move is called whilst you're still playing, the director shouldn't have to ask you to move the board - you should already have done it.

[xcurt]

Do you trust your partner?

[Free]

Here's my opinion: refusing to carry a board to another table if you're late is ridiculous, selfish, childish and pathetic. And to make things complete, it's even against the rules... You got what you deserved.

 

What's the distance between the tables? A 5 minute walk?? :)

 

(I hope you didn't post here to get some sympathy, because you probably won't get any)

[Vilgan]

Awesome to see a director actually assess a procedural penalty. I wasn't sure if they even existed anymore given most director's refusal to assess them no matter how deserving.

[Old York]

OP did mention that this was a Championship and that Dummy does have rights.

Perhaps this is another legal paradox? 2 rules in conflict.

I do have a tiny amount of sympathy for OP, but much more sympathy for the director and for all the other tables who may have been kept waiting

OP did not explain why the first board took so long, perhaps many tables had the same problem?

 

Tony

[Fluffy]

Well, I dunno the rules fully, but when I am directin on the local I carry boards all the time, that's what a competent director should had done IMO, carry the board himself.

[Fluffy]

BTW: this is not the forum anymore for this kind of post.

[Old York]

what a competent director should had done IMO, carry the board himself.

That was my initial gut reaction, too........ but no way I was going to stick my neck out and actually put it in print

 

Tony :lol:

[peachy]

If the TD instructs you to do something, you are obligated to do it.

The TD handled the case well, IMO. Whether the TD could have moved the boards himself, we do not know (he might have been in the middle of ruling or he might have been carrying boards for other late tables himself) and actually do not even need to care. Players are obligated by Law to follow the TD instructions. Refusing for the given reason is ridiculous.

[Phil]

As a sometimes director, I try to treat the players as my guests, and I am their host.

 

Unless I was running three sections or something, I can't imagine not shipping a board myself, especially if I am close enough to give a player a PP, which took more time. Sometimes sections are set up so that there is some distance between Table 1 and, say, Table 15 at the end of the section, so there is some work involved.

 

Yet, as a player, the director is the last person I want to tick off, next to my partner.

 

My guess is there might be some history here that we are not hearing about. Or perhaps this table was chronically late.

[jdonn]

I prefer playing and kibitzing to carrying boards.

I prefer playing bridge to waiting for a late table that refuses to bring me their boards.

 

I also prefer large penalties for people who ignore a directive from the director simply because they disagree with it.

 

Code said it pretty well. You get no sympathy from me at all. Just move the friggin board and have a little talk with the director when you have time later. I mean give me a break, was the next table in another city? Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill, and for utterly selfish reasons too.

[pooltuna]

As a sometimes director, I try to treat the players as my guests, and I am their host.

 

Unless I was running three sections or something, I can't imagine not shipping a board myself, especially if I am close enough to give a player a PP, which took more time. Sometimes sections are set up so that there is some distance between Table 1 and, say, Table 15 at the end of the section, so there is some work involved.

 

Yet, as a player, the director is the last person I want to tick off, next to my partner.

 

My guess is there might be some history here that we are not hearing about. Or perhaps this table was chronically late.

This is the best argument I have heard on this subject so far. I would point that the upcoming holiday is Christmas not Easter :lol:

[cicus]

Do you trust your partner?

I am keen on bridge. I never leave the table when a board is playing, even when dummy. Never.

[cicus]

I also prefer large penalties for people who ignore a directive from the director simply because they disagree with it.

 

was the next table in another city?

I did not disagree. I was interested in the board played. As a matter of fact, while the TD was instructing me, he could have forwarded the boards...

 

And, yes, this tournament is played with screens and table are in absolute disorder to minimize the chance of seeing something accidentally. And it would have taken quite some time to find the target table as it was my partner who carried the boards until that time.

[jonottawa]

My initial reaction was similar to that of others, but in 20 years of bridge I can't remember a single instance where a director ordered me to hand-deliver a board. This was an irlpeen competition, initiated by the director, and he deserves most of the scorn.

 

Directors have a number of legitimate ways to deal with slow play. Playing 'Who's your Daddy?' isn't one of them.

[Vampyr]

Well, I dunno the rules fully, but when I am directin on the local I carry boards all the time, that's what a competent director should had done IMO, carry the board himself.

I agree. I don't have a strong opinion about the original poster's actions; Laws 42A and 45B suggest that the dummy has the right to remain at the table during the play of the hand, but it's certainly not clear to me.

 

However, I am perplexed by the director's behaviour. He can go the the OP's table and ask him to move the boards but cannot move them himself?

[jdonn]

I believe everyone is starting to miss the point. The director's instruction should be followed, it doesn't matter whether or not the player agrees with it. There might be certain exceptions, such as the instruction being illegal or humiliating, but "it would be easier for the director to move the board himself" or "I have never seen a director make this request before" are not good reasons at all to ignore his request.

 

Like I said, just do it and talk to him later. Maybe he didn't realize you would be bothered by getting up as dummy. Maybe he was very busy with something else. Maybe for this director that request is normal (it was pointed out earlier in the thread that it's lawful, after all.)

 

Final note, the director didn't cause the problem of your table being behind, your table did. You should be willing to make a (tiny!) sacrifice to help alleviate that problem.

[jdonn]

And, yes, this tournament is played with screens and table are in absolute disorder to minimize the chance of seeing something accidentally. And it would have taken quite some time to find the target table as it was my partner who carried the boards until that time.

That's a really really lame excuse. Are you saying you would have complied if you knew where the table was? Did you bother to ask where it was? I doubt the answer to either of those questions is yes.

[cicus]

BTW: this is not the forum anymore for this kind of post.

I did not know that. Are you the forum moderator here?

[cicus]

Well, I dunno the rules fully, but when I am directin on the local I carry boards all the time, that's what a competent director should had done IMO, carry the board himself.

In fairness to the director, that is impossible. There are 16 tables, how could he pass over all the boards alone? And if he has ruling to make...