Cave_Draco Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 The best way, IMO, is to play with partners who are more advanced than yourself. Observe the way they play, ask questions; "I have a secret system" has no place at the bridge table! OK, we all have bad habits... but, most bridge players are Human, :-D. Remember your partner is a person, relate to the person! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trpltrbl Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Experience, and playing with and against better players.Also watching vu-graph, TopFlight and certain starplayers will help a lot.And practice..... Mike :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Play against good opponents. Ask "what did I do wrong?", or "what should I have done?". Don't be afraid to make mistakes, but try to learn from them. Read, read, read. If you got 10 bucks that you are not too attached too, use them to buy a set of Bridge Masters on line and play them over and over, until you understand the principles involved. If you got a bit more money you aren't too attached too, consider paying an onlne pro for lessons I guess. Do your research first, however, not all online pro's are built the same (some are worse than useless). I think you need someone like Shep or McPhee... but, go for one-on-one lessons. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Learn from your mistakes, trust me you make lots of them.Dont teach your partner, iv seen so many players teach their partners , they dont know enough to teach, i also remember doing the same mistakes myself , i even know i told my partner things i was sure about which later i understand i was wrong.play against good players, only by seeing better player you will get the motivation to get better.read the right books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 While we are on this topic…the fifthchair needs more Advanced/Expert players who would be willing to mentor Beginner/Intermediates, I’ve been on the waiting list for about a year!Please visit http://bridgebase.com/5thchair/ for details. jillybean2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 While we are on this topic…the fifthchair needs more Advanced/Expert players who would be willing to mentor Beginner/Intermediates, I’ve been on the waiting list for about a year!Please visit http://bridgebase.com/5thchair/ for details. jillybean2 I got a student really fast , just few days after i signed up, but he never showed up or answer my emails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlPurple Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Read a lot of quiz-style books. Then read them again, until you start getting all the answers right. You might actually find you get it right when the situations turn up at the table. Cut down your errors. It is most likely the same errors you keep making. I've signed up for fifthchair before but usually have problems due to time-zones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 I’ve been on the waiting list for about a year! Kathryn, You don't have to wait. If you are willing to forgo SAYC and learn 2/1 I will be more than happy to take you on as a student, and if you are certain you want to stick with SAYC, I will hunt up a tutor for you. There are a number of others here who no doubt be more than willing to offer you help as well. You should get your pick... as I may not be the best "mentor" available, some of my views are not so standard (but I will try to "teach" standard methods to you rather than my odd ways). The version of 2/1 I would teach is BBO Advanced.. since I think learning that one would be benefitial to everyone on BBO so they can find new partnerships quickly and agree on a fairly detailed system). Ben PS to other advanced/expert players here... if you are not tutoring someone already, why not also see if you can find beginners/intermediates to tutor? Maybe two or three of you can team up and tutor one student, swapping off who does the lessons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badderzboy Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 I've been learning for two years now and the things I found most useful were :- (i) Playing with a stronger partner (brave soul) and asking lots of questions post-hand if relevant - like was there a better lead, did I signal correctly etc and have a thick skin - I tend to screw up 1 in every 6 boards at present! (ii) Use BBO with friends and get a group of 4 who are happy to discuss the hand in a friendly manner - helped me loads - I thought your bid meant... Oh yes it should have or no it was .. in this sequence. (iii) Reading the quiz type books is great fun and informative - I've just started reading Logical Card Play by Kelsey and although I do a limited amount of it - it scares me I haven't been doing most of it lol...To bid or Not to Bid also makes you think and used in moderation ( because I've not got the hang of adjusting) works!!! (iv) When it goes horribly wrong smile and shrug shoulders - When it goes right Smile lots!!! (v) The best advice I ever recieved was always remember bidding is a conversation and who is "Captain of the auction" - "once one player has limited his hand and shape(ish) the other asks questions to finally set the contract and DON'T over-rule your partner when he does he knows more than you do!!! Easiest example is 1NT is a limited bid / shaped hand - every bid by responder asks or sets up questions to set the contract!!! (vi) Finally watching the Vugraph and star team matches does help - keep asking why did they do that etc... (vii) Also have you tried the daily quizzes at www.bridgeclues.com/index.php by Mike Lawrence - very interesting! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rona_ Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 I am not sure this 5th chair foundation works, as I have been on their waiting list for a long long time now too. In fact I sent three emails, over the course of a month, before I got a response that just said I would be added to the waiting list. The fact that Flame was assigned a student who did not respond to his emails, in my view, shows that there is something wrong with the system. I would assume that the person in charge of the foundation would first check with the student before assigning a mentor to him? Having said all that, I have done everything that Ben talks about in his post. Downloaded many sets of bridgemaster, had lessons on a one on one basis with professionals, had many books sent to me by my teacher ( which I have not read yet :) ) If there is a shortage of mentors, then I think that younger people with some talent should be given priority. I do not fall in any of the above categories, therefore I did not contact the foundation again. However it's a shame that people like Flame cannot find a student to tutor. I would ask, what is wrong with the system. I cannot find the original post of this thread :D but since I posted a short note on another thread, Paulhar, who is an advanced player , asked me to play in the main lounge a couple of times, an experience I thoroughly enjoyed. As dummy, he sat and watched me butcher many a hand, and I would like to thank him for his time and patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GijsH Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 I agree with some others in that 5th chair foundation does not work. I enlisted as mentor and never heard from them despite sending reminders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trpltrbl Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 I think Fifth chair works, I have 5 students, and that's more then I can handle with my line of work.But they seem to be happy, having to adjust to my schedule.Fifth chair is a volunteer based organisation, we can always use more mentors.Be patient, even though a year seems a little long.And when you are on BBO, ask DAWN about it. Mike :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rona_ Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 If you have 5 students, but other mentors don't get a response to their emails offering their services, then obviously something isn't working right. Especially if students have been on a waiting list for a year.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlPurple Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 I would be more happy mentoring two novices, allowing them to play together regularly and watching them grow. That way I could teach them incrementally, i.e. introducing new conventions for them to play. It would also mean they could practise playing together when I'm not around, and I may even be able to see a log of their results when I do return and go through it with them then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcLight Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 How I have improved: 1) The Mike Lawrence software (Counting at Bridge, Defense, Private Lessons 1, Private Lessons 2) is outstanding. The programs are around $40 each, and it works out to literally having a great bridge teacher give you lessons at your house at around $5/hour. (and you can redo them months later as a refresher) 2) Read GOOD bridge books. For instance - opening leads. I read Ewens Opening Leads (very Good Book), Kelseys Improve your Opening Leads (Good Book), Blackwood Opening Leads (too verbose, not worth the effort), and ma starting Mike Lawrences Opening Leads. Read up on a subject. Try and apply what you have learned. Then read some mor eon the subject a few months later. I use opening leads as an example because going from making bad leads to good leads will help your game a lot. I find that I dont absorb all the information on the first read, and must read similar material (or reread the book) months later. 3) read www.bridgeclues.com (its Mike Lawrences daily column). What makes it far superior to other columns is its not some double dummy problem. Its a practical situation you may encounter, where you see just the 2 hands. Todays column had a nice problem on holding up with the Ace. 4) Play against as strong opponents as you can find, hopefully with as good a partner as you can find. Record your games, and study them afterwards.Analys your biding and play. Did you miss a signal? Not make a signal, and or confuse pard? If you have a regular pard, and take the time to analyze your games you will improve faster. You will see that you make certain types of mistakes and you will try and cut down on those. 5) Ask for opponents & pard to point out mistakes. But that can take time, and you can see your mistakes if you take the time to review your own games later.I may ask about my bidding. Also, don't criticise unless asked, and even then be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceptic Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 WOWWWWWWWWWW slow down. I would like to express a very strong opinion here. Those that are saying anything detrimental about the 5th Chair foundation, well I say to you, "You have no idea what you are talking about". ( I would also treat what you are saying with a bit of contempt) I applied probably about a year ago for a mentor, I have never had lessons before nor had I really understood what a complex game bridge is,BUT, about six months after I applied (the time scales may be a bit out, for those pedantic enough to check the facts as I am presenting them). I recieved an email from a gentleman (an expert with a desire to help others) that was willing to help me learn the game and improve. He was asked to do his mentoring sessions in the BIL loubge so that others could benefit, which is now a regular feature on a monday. My personal experience is extremely positive and I know from some of the others that my mentor helps also appreciate him for what he is. A decent person, who gives something back to the game he enjoys so much. I feel that this is probably a quality all the 5th chair mentors possess, those that have an critisism for the 5th chair foundation, should 1. Appreciate that there is not an exhaustive list of mentors2. If you want to mentor someone, you should not be whingeing here, you can go to the BIL lounge in BBO and ask someone there, I am sure you will get lots of takers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 WOWWWWWWWWWW slow down. I would like to express a very strong opinion here. Those that are saying anything detrimental about the 5th Chair foundation, well I say to you, "You have no idea what you are talking about". ( I would also treat what you are saying with a bit of contempt) No-one who has expressed an opinion on 5th chair in this thread has done anything other than relate their personal experiences. I see nothing inappropriate in that. None of them would want the 5th chair to fail nor wish bad experiences on others who try that route, as far as I can tell. Those who have had negative personal experiences have done nothing more than express mild disappointment. How are such observations worthy of contempt? So you have had a good experience. I am very pleased for you. Personally I registered as a mentor several years ago and never got a bite. I think it may have had something to do with time zones. Maybe it has grown since then so that the mentors and novices are more evenly distributed around the globe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlPurple Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 One of my problems of being a mentor is that although I live in the UK I totally dislike Acol and would not want to mentor anyone to use it. I could never be a bridge teacher here either for the same reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Greetings all! I am on the Fifth Chair Board of Directors and in response to the posts here let me tell you that there is a distinct lack of mentors at present. We simply are not getting mentor volunteers of late. Also, occasionally in the past, we have had mentor volunteers whom we have been unable to place with a novice for various reasons - time zones, odd systems, past complaints, etc... But this is not typical. I receive the emails requesting mentors, and reply promptly to each....even if it's only to say that they will be added to the waiting list....quite a long one at this point. Our experience on BBO has been quite different than on OKbridge and eBridge, where we have similar programs. The first mentoring program originated on OKbridge and we initially had more mentor volunteers than novices requesting help at first. (Oh how I would LOVE to have that problem on BBO.) In fact, since BBO took the news box down (the one that used to appear when you first logged in, and on which we had an announcement about this program) we have had only two BBO mentor volunteers. This is a change in BBO's fundamental presentation, and we can't do anything about that. Perhaps I could make a few suggestions: 1. Do not restrict your request. For example, I have a request at present in which the novice says they can only play between 2 and 4 pm on Wednesdays, etc... Another who wants a male mentor, age 55-60, etc... These novices will not likely get a mentor because of the restrictive nature of the request. 2. Use the Fifth Chair website to make your request as the form mandates certain information we need to process the request. The URL is: http://www.fifthchair.org/bbolearn.htm 3. If you know an advanced player who might be willing to help a novice, please refer them to the information on our website about the program at: http://www.fifthchair.org/programs.htm#Mentoring In the meantime, those of you who are learning will find some wonderful free resources on our website designed to help your efforts: * Ask Anything (http://www.fifthchair.org/askany.htm): Pose a bridge question to our resident expert and get a response usually within 24 hours * Bridge School (http://www.fifthchair.org/school/): A series of SAYC lessons designed to get you started with this system * Bridge Archive (http://www.fifthchair.org/archive/): A collection of write-ups about various conventions, defense, declarer play and system notes, etc... * Bridge Jargon (http://www.fifthchair.org/jargon/jargon_a.htm): A glossary of bridge terms and definitions. Lastly, I do not monitor the Forums regularly so sorry for the delay in responding to these posts. If you have a specific question, it's quicker to write to me directly at bbo@fifthchair.org. Thanks, Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trpltrbl Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 Hopefully you'll get some more mentors now. Mike :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceptic Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 OK, we all have bad habits... but, most bridge players are Human, :-D I assume you are not talking about yourself here draco :D) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rona_ Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 The newsbox is still there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothy Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 Ummm, Dawn finally came to forums then :ph34r: How to learn? I think this can be be rephrased as: How does one learn most effectively. In my opinion, there are two major factors here. This 'philosophy' is, of course, not restricted to bridge. -----The first is a cumulative one and about attitude. It is more than a coincidence that attitude and altitude are just one letter apart [geez just thought of that, impressive huh :ph34r:] You have to :- a ) Have a passion for the game. If you are not really bothered about improving your bridge, you simply wont or, maybe, it will take much much longer. Impassioned enthusiasm is the biggest gradient enhancer for a learning curve. Many factors play a role here. How you were introduced to the game, whether you are of a certain mentality and migrated from another similar sport, etc. Personally, i was hooked when i attended 3 lessons in 3 days at my local club. I have lived the life of a bridge obsessive-neurotic-card-fetishist ever since. b ) Set yourself goals. You won't become an expert bidder and card-sharp in 2 weeks!! (well it took me 16 days :( ). Set yourself realistic targets and STICK to them, and be flexible as to your next set of goals. This is not easy, as it is difficult to know how you have progressed, and whether to change gear or not. It will help if you have an objective opinion of someone who can make a well-judged assessment of your improvement. From personal experience, i won the National Newcomers, and was told by people who I respected i could: biggest motivator i ever had (i set a goal to win it in 2 years). c ) Be inquisitive; be curious; be a pain in the butt. Hee hee. Asking questions is the only way you gonna get answers!!! At the end of the day the worse thing that can happen is that someone will not answer a question for which you didnt have an answer to yourself. Challenging other peoples' thresholds of patience, within reason, is worth it if it dilates your threshold of understanding. (i'm on a roll, don't stop me.....) The bright side is that there are other people out there who would be more responsive; the dark side is having to remember a cohort of people whose patience you have exhausted. d ) Be humble and be willing to make mistakes, coz you will make them, and make them again, whether you want to or not. Keep one ear open to valuable lessons genuinely offered, keep the other closed to abject criticism and ego-mongering. Unfortunately, there are some people who like others to be aware that they know better, irrespective of whether you will too. De-wax your ears frequently. e ) Combine theory, practice and fun. Can't stress this strongly enough. There is no better catalyst to improving your game than doing something (practice) and being aware of why you are doing it (theory) and enjoy doing it(fun). Take out one of these elements and the expression doesnt factorise, buddy. ----In essence read as much as you can (theory), and read it again and again if necessary until you understand the underlying principle. ----Play as often as you can( practice) and see each board as a potential lesson. More often than not, there is a fundamental one that you have easily overlooked. ----Play with the right people at the right time with the right motives. A lesson is well-remembered if given with a smile on your face. And it is scientifically proven that your partner plays better if s/he can see your teeth. f ) For male players only. Never play with a woman with a well-endowed chest. You become presented with 2 Weapons of Mass Distraction. ----- -----The second is about exploiting the learning method that is best for you. We all have different ways of learning, or learning most effectively. Personally, i learn best visually. So, going through the BBO online hands in Masterbridge suits my style perfectly. I then back it up with reading something if necessary. Some people like to get their hands dirty straight away. Thats OK but it normally requires having a mentor wishing to run alongside you. Some people like to read books. Thats OK too, but at one time or another you got to sit at a table and apply it;) ------- For those people for whom this advice doesnt rub, may i offer a few other suggestions. A ) Buy your partner a mirror, 30 cm by 30 cm, to wear as a medallion on the evenings you are playing bridge.... B ) Play with a partner much better than you. Further, and this is important, either (i) marry him/her or ii) have a love-child if you are unfortunately already married (and have a Roman Catholic upbringing). In (i) he has no option; in (ii), you give him the option of bridge lessons or crippling Child Support. Hope this has been useful. Alex. PS I have contacted my lawyer and hereby am not responsible for the actions of people who take my advice of B ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cave_Draco Posted July 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 OK, we all have bad habits... but, most bridge players are Human, :-D I assume you are not talking about yourself here draco :blink:)I have some really bad habits!On the subordinate claws(sic), I take the 5th. My last comment "Remember your partner is a person, relate to the person!" was a criticism of myself.Advanced players can learn from BIL players!Even Experts make mistakes; it is too easy to say "I am the better player, therefore I am right!"Nobody should be too proud to review a hand in the cool of the morning, after the heat of battle, and apologise for analysis made in haste. As a footnote, many advanced/expert players got to that status by Bridge addiction... Certainly my bestest P has better person skills than I. }{ugs P, @}-,--'--- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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