vuroth Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 [hv=d=s&v=n&s=s54ha64daqt643cj4]133|100|Scoring: MP1♦ 1♠2♦ 2♥?[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 duplicated :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Some old people play this sequence as non forcing, but the common trend nowadays it sthat it is jsut foricng with better hearts than clubs. Your rebid now is 3♦ since you don't have: -3 spades for bidding 2♠-4 hearts for bidding 3♥-Clubs stopped for bidding 2NT-Half a stopper in clubs to bid 3♣-Doubleton honnor in spades for 2♠ So you rebid diamonds wich "could" be just 5 cards the round before, and it is a good suit after all. Secong best choice would be 3♣ to show something there but not enough for 2NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Yeah 3♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vuroth Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcLight Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Why is this now forcing when in the past it was not?What if responder has a weak, shapely hand? Isnt responder moe likely to have this kind of hand (weak) than a strong (forcing) hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I think in the past people were more likely to bid 5-card suits twice than they are today, so responder would try to improve the contract by bidding new suits with weak hands. Maybe more to the point, bridge bidding evolved from games like Whist where bidding was not about information exchange. When you have no partner, you just bid what think you can make. Since the introduction of contract bridge, there has been a slow evolution towards more an more forcing bids. Because of the demographics of the bridge community (most teachers learned the game in the stone age), the evolution has been so slow. Until the introduction of online bridge, which made the younger generation more influential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suokko Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Idea is to pass with weak shapely hand. In IMP scoring you gain a lot by defining it forcing and lose very little.In places where nearly all the games are MP non-forcing meaning is a lot more popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tola18 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 The key is, 2d is nonforcing, and with the shown 6 cards should make even against a singelton. Thus, proceeding to bid on must be positive. Of course, playing match points, where a playable contract in majors easily gives an edge over contracts in minor, MAY be an exception for intermediates and above... There is case for both standings. I presume every pair should discuss it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Some old people have adapted :o My (old person) replies are:-3D-2H is forcing-It is an intermediate question, not a novice question because even though 2H is forcing to most everyone, you should discuss how far it forces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vuroth Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I guess the reason that I asked is that, at matchpoints, I wondered if 2♠ would ever be right. I bid 3♦ at the table, but in the post mortem I started to wonder if a spade partial was the right place to be, at MPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 IMO, certainly a partscore in spades could be right. But responder could have a lot of hands for 2H, including slammish in diamonds without 5 or more spades, and your 3D call pretty-well covers the minimum nature of your hand and approximate shape. You are now well placed if partner rebids a long spade suit (6+ and strong), or anything else. If 2H commits us to game or 4/level, then a 2S call over 2H will have not been helpful as to your shape or your strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I find this discussion interesting, since it seems that some of it is backwards. In old-fashioned Standard American, a new suit by responder is forcing. So the 2♥ call is forcing. However, I play that the 2♥ call is non-forcing, and I use a 3♣ call as an artificial force (extended new minor forcing). If the 2♥ call is non-forcing, I think it is a close choice between passing 2♥, bidding 2♠ (a known 5-2 fit) or bidding 3♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 If the 2♥ call is non-forcing, I think it is a close choice between passing 2♥, bidding 2♠ (a known 5-2 fit) or bidding 3♦. If the 2♥ call is non-forcing, pass is quite obvious and anything else is quite bad. Partner should be 5-5, as why pull a 6 card suit with 5-4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 If the 2♥ call is non-forcing, I think it is a close choice between passing 2♥, bidding 2♠ (a known 5-2 fit) or bidding 3♦. If the 2♥ call is non-forcing, pass is quite obvious and anything else is quite bad. Partner should be 5-5, as why pull a 6 card suit with 5-4? 5404? Partner is allowed to have a few major suit cards. It helps to know how frequently partner will raise the 1♠ response with 3 cards. If he will do so often, then bidding over 2♦ has less to gain. But partner could hold 3 or 4 hearts on this auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I think you can bid 2♠ on a doubleton quite often in this sequence. With Qx Axx AJxxxx xx I would definitely prefer 2♠. The two small spades and diamond quality make 3♦ a bit better on the actual hand though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 2♥ IMO should be NF but not crap either. Not opposed to a raise. Pass seems obvious with this hand. This, of course, suggests several other tweaks, such as a GF 3♥ jump and some sort of sexy 2-bids initially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONEferBRID Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 After the rebid by Opener of his minor, I play : " Cheapest New Suit Bid" as forcing( similar to NMF ): 1D - 1S2D - 2H! = maybe artificial ( I think I'll use this as what Ken calls a sexy 2-bid )??2S = 3 cards Sp2NT* = stop(s) in the other Major ( Hts ); same as in NMF 3C = 4 cards Cl3D = none of others3H = 4 cards Hts- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -*Note: Fluffy's 2NT defined it as stop(s) in the 4th suit ( Cl ), but then the 2H bid was interpreted as natural . In NMF, the 4th suit is ALWAYS the other Major. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - So, my way, 2NT is Opener's easy rebid over 2H!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 2S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 [hv=d=s&v=n&s=s54ha64daqt643cj4]133|100|Scoring: MP1♦ 1♠2♦ 2♥?[/hv]IMO 2♠ = 10, 3♦ = 7.I think 2♥ should be forcing but not game-forcing. If partner passes your bid, then you may prefer to play a higher-scoring contract at a lower level. ♠ may be a better than ♦ when partner is 6403 for example. Over 2♠, if partner feels like it, he can correct to 3♦ with a doubleton or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 2S. The Ds are not quite good enough to bid 3. 2H is forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 3D. Independent fo the meaning of 2H, which could be natural or artificial.3D showes a min opener with 6 diamonds, denies 4 hearts,3 spades and a club stopper, seems perfect. With kind regardsMarlowe PS: After reading some other posts - 2S is certainly ok, althoughit depends, if you regular raise with 3 card support direct to 2S,than partner wont expect 3 cards if you now bid 2S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 2 ♥ is non forcing to me so I can pass. But with an unknown expert I would take it as forcing and bid 3 Diamond. I would hate it, but I would hate bidding spades with xx even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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