mohitz Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 1♣ - (2♦) - X - (2♥) X 1♣ - (2♦) - X - (2♥) p - p - X What are these doubles? Does the answer change if 1C is opened in 3rd seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 1. I play this as cards, but others around here would say takeout (although I'm not sure what this means). 2. Definitely takeout - shows a better hand than the original negative x but no clear direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonottawa Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Both offers to defend imo. Pretty common spot for a 2♥ psych. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 1. I play this as 100% penalty. This is a common psych situation, and opponents have bid a suit which partner presumably showed with his takeout double. Same as (2♦)-X-(2♥)-X. 2. Cards; responder has a good hand but no clear direction. Probably he has a semi-balanced invite without a diamond stopper. In any case, opener is allowed to leave this in with a few hearts, or bid notrump with diamond stopper, or rebid a long club suit. Similar to (2♦)-X-(2♥)-P-(P)-X, which shows extras but is not really "takeout for black suits." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 I think both are straight penalty. Isn't that what a double is in a suit partner has shown or I have shown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchett Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Agree with JDONN both are penalty for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wclass___ Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi, both are obvious penalties for me. In the first one pass basically shows ''cards'', in 2nd you just want to keep option open to be able to double for penalty with 4. GL :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Agree with JDONN both are penalty for me. WHAT!!! From what I have seen on these fora all doubles are either TO or protection!! Are you even allowed to use the word "penalty" and "double" in the same sentence? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Yeah the first one is obv penalty. The 2nd one...... dunno? Guess it's cards and partner usually passes if balanced but can bid with like 3136 or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I do agree that the first one will essentially never get pulled (unless responder made a negative double with spades and diamond support but not hearts?) but the second can easily be pulled if opener is short in hearts and thinks it's right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 First is penalty, I don't think there can be any doubt about it. The second one suggests penalty unless opener's hand is very offensive (very unlikely since opener passed on his second turn to bid). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 The first is clearly penalty for me. The second I think is just cards without any clear direction, partner often passes though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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