Compact k/o problem

[mycroft]

Ed, you might want to reread my post, especially the quote headers. :-)

 

I agree, for information you or I can't get off the top of our heads, the Chart is likely not going to help. That's why I don't bother looking at it any more.

 

Not a criticism...I am known as not being the clearest writer sometimes...

[JanM]

Interesting, David.  Let me be the first, then...the only two ways I've heard of playing unusual over unusual are "Low shows low" and "Low shows limit" (i.e. raise, support).  I'd never heard of "higher shows support" before.

I'll add my vote to David's on which cue should show which suit, although with a little twist. I think that having the cheaper cue bid show the 4th (i.e. our unbid) suit is usually better than having it show either the lower suit or the opened suit. That's because we need more room when we haven't yet established a fit. I do have two exceptions: 1) if the cheaper cue is below 3 of the opened suit and the higher cue is above it, we use the cheaper cue to show support, as that allows us to stop in 3 of the opened suit; 2) if the cheaper cue is below 3NT, the higher cue is above 3NT and our opened suit is a minor, we use the cheaper cue to show support, so we can stop in 3NT. Of course in both of these "exception" cases, the cue bid that shows support is not as strong as the cue bid that shows the 4th suit.

 

I wouldn't expect an unfamiliar partnership to be on firm ground about UvU, though. Nor, I confess, is it something I'd tend to discuss with a new partner if we didn't have much time before playing. In that situation, which I gather is the one David was in, I have no idea how to interpret a cue bid, except as not natural. I guess that's why some of us have many pages of notes defining agreements, most of which never seem to come up :lol:.

[barmar]

When I agree to play UvU with a new partner, I always make sure to ask which form.

 

And while cue bids in general don't require alerts, I think UvU is still uncommon enough that I think it falls within the "highly unusual and unexpected" category. Although it's obvious that it shouldn't be natural, the specific meanings of the different cue bids are unexpected enough that I want opponents to know they should ask about it. The ACBL Alert Procedure says, "when in doubt, alert", and this one is at best borderline, so I have no qualms about alerting it.

[blackshoe]

Ed, you might want to reread my post, especially the quote headers. :-)

 

I agree, for information you or I can't get off the top of our heads, the Chart is likely not going to help. That's why I don't bother looking at it any more.

 

Not a criticism...I am known as not being the clearest writer sometimes...

I said what I did because a lot of people look only at the alert chart — and think it is at least as definitive as the Procedure itself. :lol:

[mycroft]

Ah, okay; it read to me as if it were aimed at me, not "in general".

 

Sorry for the confusion.

[bluejak]

I'll add my vote to David's on which cue should show which suit, although with a little twist. I think that having the cheaper cue bid show the 4th (i.e. our unbid) suit is usually better than having it show either the lower suit or the opened suit. That's because we need more room when we haven't yet established a fit. I do have two exceptions: 1) if the cheaper cue is below 3 of the opened suit and the higher cue is above it, we use the cheaper cue to show support, as that allows us to stop in 3 of the opened suit; 2) if the cheaper cue is below 3NT, the higher cue is above 3NT and our opened suit is a minor, we use the cheaper cue to show support, so we can stop in 3NT. Of course in both of these "exception" cases, the cue bid that shows support is not as strong as the cue bid that shows the 4th suit.

Good: you and I can play without further discussion, since I play the same for the same reasons! It just seems logical to me. :ph34r: