TylerE Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Dealer is on your right (p) - p - (p) - 1♠(X) - XX - (2♣) 2♦3♣ - 3♥ !?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdanno Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Tyler, this is really not an A/E topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 loladding wtf, and dne to lol. Adding to Cherdanno, I don't think this is a bridge topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Why should it, coming from a hand to weak too open? Of course it can be argued, that 3H showes fit, for diamonds (*), which means, it is forcing, since the partnership wont play 3H in this case, ..., but there was no hint, that 3H promised fit for ??? (*) Fit for spade should not be a valid option, but this is dependon your agreement set. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 OK you asked!! I think this should show: AKxvoidxxxxxxxQxx oh no wait then why redouble? OK agree with the tla's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 In standard method the 2♦ bid shows a minimum and a passed hand cannot force opposite a minimum opener. I think this principle still applies to a 4th seat opener albeit not to a 3rd seat opener. Please someone correct me if I am wrong. If the 3♥ bidder had not been a passed hand it would be forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 OK you asked!! I think this should show: AKxvoidxxxxxxxQxx oh no wait then why redouble? OK agree with the tla's. How about 5431 with spade shortage, 10-11HCP? A direct 2D / 2H bid could be weaker, and maybe your heart suitis something like QJxxx, but the auction would than also sayxxx in clubs ... With kind regardsMarlowe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 no, that won't work. You can't force to game as a passed hand unless you have some crazy distribution. and you can't have a crazy distribution if you xx as a passed hand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 no, that won't work. You can't force to game as a passed hand unless you have some crazy distribution. and you can't have a crazy distribution if you xx as a passed hand! Well, after a fit got discovered, the strength of a passed hand canincrease, so that the passed hand becomes a game force, and forthis, you dont need crazy distribution. Game force = no fear of the 4 level. In the current auction, 3D over the 3C would still show a reasonablehand, but I can imagine, that for some 3D would just be competitive, and since p had no interest playing 2Cx, and pass over 3C may be non forcing (?!), ... but I agree, it becomes to get messy. A important point is, that a new suit after the double does not need topromise the world, I am pretty sure, tht even in NA they play NFB over at/o. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 do you have xqjxxxAKxxxxx ? and now you can game force??? what's wrong with bidding 3D? you did redouble last round didn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 do you have xqjxxxAKxxxxx ? and now you can game force??? what's wrong with bidding 3D? you did redouble last round didn't you? Partner may still have a 3 card heart suit. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 so that's why you force to game? because partner may have a 3 card heart suit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted November 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 The actual hand I had was like JxAJTxKQxxxxx I wanted to see if partner could do any of: Bid 3♠, bid 3N, rebid 4♦, etc. I think the bid has to be forcing because after the opponents raise are options for probing are very limited. Oh yea, 3♥ (in the 4-2, with 4♠ and 5♦ cold) chalked up 140. Partner was 5=2=5=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 so what's wrong with 3D with that unremarkable 11 count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 so that's why you force to game? because partner may have a 3 card heart suit? No, I am not forcing to game, I am willing to stop in 4D, but 3H is a more serious push torward game than 3D.3D is just showing the fit, and a hand that bids 3D has maybe streched to make the XX, afterall since we are a passed hand, partner wont play us for full values anyway. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 The actual hand I had was like JxAJTxKQxxxxx I wanted to see if partner could do any of: Bid 3♠, bid 3N, rebid 4♦, etc. I think the bid has to be forcing because after the opponents raise are options for probing are very limited. Oh yea, 3♥ (in the 4-2, with 4♠ and 5♦ cold) chalked up 140. Partner was 5=2=5=1 I think you are better positioned, if you bid 3S instead of 3H.At least, if you have the partnership agreement in place, thatXX denies primary support.In this case, 3S has to show diamonds besides the secondary spade support.And even if p is not on the same wavelength, 3S will ensure, that you will play a reasonable contract. With kind regardsMarlowe PS: I have nothing angainst 3D, but if one wants to bid on, thanI think 3S describes the hand better and is safer. The alternative to 3D is of course 4D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_20686 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Surely no one actually thinks that this hands has a good enough heart suit to play in hearts after the xx? xx normally denies a suit good enough for a 2/1 response. Only sensible assesment is that partner has a very strong hand to play in diamonds. How about xAxxxKxxxAxxx if you would not open it. Could easily still have slam on opposite a 5-5 hand with short clubs which is what partners pull normally shows. Axxxx xx AQxxx x or similar could play nicely in 6d. Though it might be awkward on a trump lead. xx AKxx KJxx xxx could equally be a monster hand opposite AKxxx xxx Axxxx -. So it seems clear that you need a way to GF in diamonds on this auction. I struggled to creat any hands where i would xx that would wish to rebid 3h naturallly here. Seems v uncommon. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I think Phil makes a good point, although I wouldn't try this playing with a human, playing with someone like Ken Rexford I think 3♥ should be a great diamond raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted November 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 That was exactly what I was thinking: e.g. that 3♥ has to be a hand with diamond support too good to bid 3♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Dealer is on your right (p) - p - (p) - 1♠(X) - XX - (2♣) 2♦3♣ - 3♥ !?!? One of my meta agreement standards is that a passed hand can only make a forcing bid in a suit where one of the opponents are known to have at least 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 What ever happened to 4♣ or 4♦ over 3♣ to announce diamond hands? I don't think forcing is the right word, but I would say typically it is a 1534 hand, that is, it is natural and can be passed with diamond tolerance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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