Pass?

[kgr]

[hv=d=s&s=skqxhxdkxxxcakt9x]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

1♣-1♦!

1NT-2NT!

3♣!-3♥

3♠-5♦

??

 

1♣=can be 2c (you open 5542)

1♦=transfer

1NT=max 2c♥ (can be singleton if no better bid)

2NT=transfer ♦

3♣=extra's for ♦

3♥=cue our hounours in ♥ (You have agreed to play no real cues below 3♠, so raher honours).

3♠= 1st/2nd control

 

No real agreements about 5♦, If you think that 4♦ is forcing - which probably is - then it would have been RKC for ♦,.

Partner could also have started with 1♠ -transfer ♦ - followed by bidding ♥ and that would have been a reverse, normally better then the above sequence.

[hanp]

So what was 1NT? How many HCP?

[kgr]

So what was 1NT? How many HCP?

12-14..normally (1NT opening is 15-17)

[helene_t]

Looks like p wasnt interested in slam but only in whether we could play 3NT instead of 5♦. This hand is beyond what he can imagine, though, so at least I have to bid 6.

[hanp]

So we showed 12-14 HCP while we actually have a prime 15, and now we have to think about slam while partner hasn't even tried.

 

I'd rebid 2C instead. I dislike rebidding a 5-card minor about as much as anybody but there are no appealing alternatives.

[paca1987]

I would rebid 2♣ i think, even 1♠, but never 1N on that hand.

 

If you dediced to bid 1N why you would consider bidding 6?

I think i would just pass and try to make my overtrick.

the 99% of the times your partner was just looking for game with his bid.

Trying to find the perfect hand is a guarantee to fail :)

[helene_t]

hmm, if our 3♠ bid shows 1st or 2nd round control but could be shortness, how is p supposed to know when to bid 3NT over it? Or does our bidding show weakness in hearts so p might think his heart stoppers are not good enough?

[Jlall]

Agree with paca, rebid 2C. Rebidding 1n with a stiff is fine, but with a good 15 is not fine.

 

I pass now, partner didn't try for slam and is pretty much a lock to have a hand with like a stiff club that thinks we don't have clubs stopped since we bid 3S. Of course we could still have a slam but it's a crap shoot, and often hands with 2 keycards and the queen of diamonds and short clubs would have at least tried for slam if they thought we had no club wastage.

[jdonn]

I would rather rebid 1♠ than 2♣. For some reason that makes me feel old and weird.

 

But I would not bid 1NT!

[Jlall]

I would rather rebid 1♠ than 2♣. For some reason that makes me feel old and weird.

 

But I would not bid 1NT!

Yeah I would also rebid 1S because I'm allergic to rebidding a 5cm, but I didn't really want to distract from the point of don't bid 1N by saying something weird heh.

[mikeh]

hmm, if our 3♠ bid shows 1st or 2nd round control but could be shortness, how is p supposed to know when to bid 3NT over it? Or does our bidding show weakness in hearts so p might think his heart stoppers are not good enough?

I can't construct a 1N rebid with a shortness control in spades :D

[kgr]

Agree with paca, rebid 2C. Rebidding 1n with a stiff is fine, but with a good 15 is not fine.

But 2♣ does not show more strength then 1NT?

I pass now, partner didn't try for slam and is pretty much a lock to have a hand with like a stiff club that thinks we don't have clubs stopped since we bid 3S. Of course we could still have a slam but it's a crap shoot, and often hands with 2 keycards and the queen of diamonds and short clubs would have at least tried for slam if they thought we had no club wastage.

Don't you think he showed slem interest by first bidding 3♥. He could have assumed a ♣ stop after my 1♣ opening and denial of 4c♠ and 3c♥?

[gnasher]

Why is it better to lie about my spade length than to lie about my club length?

[Jlall]

Agree with paca, rebid 2C. Rebidding 1n with a stiff is fine, but with a good 15 is not fine.

But 2♣ does not show more strength then 1NT?

I pass now, partner didn't try for slam and is pretty much a lock to have a hand with like a stiff club that thinks we don't have clubs stopped since we bid 3S. Of course we could still have a slam but it's a crap shoot, and often hands with 2 keycards and the queen of diamonds and short clubs would have at least tried for slam if they thought we had no club wastage.

Don't you think he showed slem interest by first bidding 3♥. He could have assumed a ♣ stop after my 1♣ opening and denial of 4c♠ and 3c♥?

2C has a higher upper limit both in HCP (could be 15, and on a rare occasion 16 if you try hard enough) and in playing strength (6+ clubs is obviously better than a balanced hand even with the same amount of HCP). I mean, for instance you'd never pass a 2C rebid with 10 and some kind of club fit, but you would routinely pass 1N with 10.

 

I don't think a 1C opener shows a club stopper. If partner had something like Jx KQxxx AQxxx x couldn't be bid this way? It doesn seem realistic to bid 3N after 3S with this hand.

[Jlall]

Why is it better to lie about my spade length than to lie about my club length?

Imo it will cost you much more often if you don't have the 6th club than when you don't have the 4th spade.

 

That being said, when it does cost you to not have the 4th spade it can be pretty costly, so my first sentence doesn't necessarily mean it's right to bid 1S.

 

I would expect at least 20x as many experts to bid 2C as 1S obv.

[kgr]

If partner had something like Jx KQxxx AQxxx x couldn't be bid this way?

With a GF 55 he would rebid 3♦.

[Jlall]

If partner had something like Jx KQxxx AQxxx x couldn't be bid this way?

With a GF 55 he would rebid 3♦.

ok, so partner is like 4-6 GF? Make that Jx KQxx AQxxxx x then, same concept.

[kgr]

[hv=d=s&n=sxhakxxdaxxxxxcxx&s=skqxhxdkxxxcakt9x]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

1♣-1♦!

1NT-2NT!

3♣!-3♥

3♠-5♦

All pass

 

1♦=xfer ♥

2NT=xfer ♦ (and 4c♥)

3♣=max for ♦

What was the biggest reason for missing 6♦?

[kgr]

If partner had something like Jx KQxxx AQxxx x couldn't be bid this way?

With a GF 55 he would rebid 3♦.

ok, so partner is like 4-6 GF? Make that Jx KQxx AQxxxx x then, same concept.

Then he would have bid reverse by starting with 1♠ (xfer ♦) and rebid 2♦ (xfer ♥)

[gwnn]

so why didnt he bid this hand like that? i'm sure he had a very good reason. it just looks like nobody on these forums knows your system quite well enough (except you).

[kgr]

so why didnt he bid this hand like that? i'm sure he had a very good reason. it just looks like nobody on these forums knows your system quite well enough (except you).

Not strong enough if no fit? Or he forgot that he could reverse? (I think a combination of both)

 

BTW: I appreciate that you all try to understand our system and answer the question :(

[mike777]

<!-- NORTHSOUTH begin --><table border=1> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td>Dealer:</td> <td> South </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Vul:</td> <td> ???? </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Scoring:</td> <td> IMP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table border='1'> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> x </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> AKxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> Axxxxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> xx </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> KQx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> x </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> Kxxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> AKT9x </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- NORTHSOUTH end -->

1♣-1♦!

1NT-2NT!

3♣!-3♥

3♠-5♦

All pass

 

1♦=xfer ♥

2NT=xfer ♦ (and 4c♥)

3♣=max for ♦

What was the biggest reason for missing 6♦?

 

 

I really dislike 1nt, number one, dislike 5d, number two.

btw you did not alert how strong your 2nt! bid is but I would assume inv or game force.

 

 

 

Responder hand is a tough one for me. My best try would be:

 

 

1c=1h(Walsh style)

2c=3d(invitational, often some sort of 5-5 or 4-6 hand type, with other invitational type hands I might be stuck with some offshape 2nt rebid).(2d would be art and gf, for me)

now 4d or 4h(rkc for d, not hearts)=etc...

[Jlall]

If partner had something like Jx KQxxx AQxxx x couldn't be bid this way?

With a GF 55 he would rebid 3♦.

ok, so partner is like 4-6 GF? Make that Jx KQxx AQxxxx x then, same concept.

Then he would have bid reverse by starting with 1♠ (xfer ♦) and rebid 2♦ (xfer ♥)

So partner is not 5-4, or 5-5. Partner is also not 4-6 GF.

 

So it seems like partner must be invitational when he bids 2N showing diamonds and hearts (else he would start with 1S first)? Then when you show that you like diamonds, he can GF.

 

That being said, it seems obvious that when he bids 3H he is still looking for the best game, and when you bid 3S he is no longer interested in 3N (he has short clubs) so he bids 5D. It does not seem possible in your system for partner to be trying for slam since he would start with 1S then show hearts with a GF hand with 4H and longer diamonds, and he would bid 3D over 1N with 5-5 GF.

 

Is this accurate? FWIW if you want better answers to your problems when you give an artificial system it would help if you listed everything you knew about the auction so we wouldn't have to guess.

 

If everything I said is right, 5D is an extremely poor bid. Partner has already limited his hand by not starting with 1S first, and he has a super max for that limit! He surely should try for slam in this context. I mean slam is great opposite as little as Axx xx Kxxx Axxx and thats an 11 count.

[kgr]

If partner had something like Jx KQxxx AQxxx x couldn't be bid this way?

With a GF 55 he would rebid 3♦.

ok, so partner is like 4-6 GF? Make that Jx KQxx AQxxxx x then, same concept.

Then he would have bid reverse by starting with 1♠ (xfer ♦) and rebid 2♦ (xfer ♥)

So partner is not 5-4, or 5-5. Partner is also not 4-6 GF.

 

So it seems like partner must be invitational when he bids 2N showing diamonds and hearts (else he would start with 1S first)? Then when you show that you like diamonds, he can GF.

 

That being said, it seems obvious that when he bids 3H he is still looking for the best game, and when you bid 3S he is no longer interested in 3N (he has short clubs) so he bids 5D. It does not seem possible in your system for partner to be trying for slam since he would start with 1S then show hearts with a GF hand with 4H and longer diamonds, and he would bid 3D over 1N with 5-5 GF.

 

Is this accurate? FWIW if you want better answers to your problems when you give an artificial system it would help if you listed everything you knew about the auction so we wouldn't have to guess.

 

If everything I said is right, 5D is an extremely poor bid. Partner has already limited his hand by not starting with 1S first, and he has a super max for that limit! He surely should try for slam in this context. I mean slam is great opposite as little as Axx xx Kxxx Axxx and thats an 11 count.

That is right.

4♦ would have been RKC for ♦ now (♦-fit confirmed by 3♣). That is your choice then iso 5♦

..or 6♦?

[Jlall]

How about just cuebidding 4S and leaving the ball in partner's court? He now knows you have at most about 11 points, you have no club control, and you have controls in both majors, and you are 4-6, and you are still making a slam move opposite a 12-14 type hand. Seems like he knows everything then and can make an intelligent decision.