kfay Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 [hv=d=s&v=b&s=sj8754hk43dk4cj42]133|100|Scoring: IMPP-(1♦)-1NT-(2♥)? 1♦ is 2+, 15- HCP[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONEferBRID Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 You can invite if you think your 8 hcp and J-5th of Sp are worth it.2NT! ( Leb) >> forcing 3C, then 3S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanp Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 3H: 5+ spades, at least invitational. Will bid 3NT next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Agree with han. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 I will invite in spades. Its hard to say if this hand wants to declare or not with the lack of tenaces, but in general I prefer the strong hand on lead in situations like this. There's a strong chance RHO doesn't have the ♥A so this particular hand I will be glad I am not playing transfer lebensohl or a variant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Am I just a wimp today? I would sooner sign off than GF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 You can invite if you think your 8 hcp and J-5th of Sp are worth it.2NT! ( Leb) >> forcing 3C, then 3S. agree with the method, but would need to hold an invite with six spades or a better five card suit, IMHO.Think I will dog it with 2S. Phil's rightsiding point seems right, but we have had success with underbidding when everyone is in the auction before a fit is known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanp Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Am I just a wimp today? I would sooner sign off than GF.Really? My partners don't overcall 1NT on just any 15-count, so I am more aggressive over a 1NT overcall than after a 1NT opening. It looks like both of my kings are well placed and I expect partner to be able to play the hand almost double dummy. I should at least invite, and if partner doesn't have spade support I have no reason to think 3S plays better than 3NT. If partner does have spade support I'm happy to be in game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 force game. Shd be easy to count hands, so.. besides, if 1♦ is the nebulous one, 2♥ might have been bid on jack 6th and out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Am I just a wimp today? I would sooner sign off than GF.Really? My partners don't overcall 1NT on just any 15-count, so I am more aggressive over a 1NT overcall than after a 1NT opening. It looks like both of my kings are well placed and I expect partner to be able to play the hand almost double dummy. I should at least invite, and if partner doesn't have spade support I have no reason to think 3S plays better than 3NT. If partner does have spade support I'm happy to be in game. Well clearly this spotless balanced hand with two random stray jacks and a bad main suit is a very bad 8 count. Anyway if I can invite I will, but if I can't I will certainly sign off. In fact this strikes me as the type of hand that can have 26 points but no game. Also, in what way is the diamond king well placed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 [hv=d=s&v=b&s=sj8754hk43dk4cj42]133|100|Scoring: IMPP-(1♦)-1NT-(2♥)? 1♦ is 2+, 15- HCP[/hv] Well looks like the choices are X,2♠, 3♠. looks like my game chances are a tad anti%age so that makes X my preference of course I play it sanely as PENALTY (if you want insurance on success go to Lloyd's of London). 2♠ is the call for those who suffer from ulcers. 3♠ is your best shot for those who think they want to try for game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Am I just a wimp today? I would sooner sign off than GF.Really? My partners don't overcall 1NT on just any 15-count, so I am more aggressive over a 1NT overcall than after a 1NT opening. It looks like both of my kings are well placed and I expect partner to be able to play the hand almost double dummy. I should at least invite, and if partner doesn't have spade support I have no reason to think 3S plays better than 3NT. If partner does have spade support I'm happy to be in game. Well clearly this spotless balanced hand with two random stray jacks and a bad main suit is a very bad 8 count. Anyway if I can invite I will, but if I can't I will certainly sign off. In fact this strikes me as the type of hand that can have 26 points but no game. Also, in what way is the diamond king well placed? Well when my partner overcalls 1NT I really, really think they have a ♦ stopper and given that I am ready to play 2♥X the ♦K was my opening lead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 In fact this strikes me as the type of hand that can have 26 points but no game. Agree, but you would invite if one were available? maybe he will accept an invite with more than 18 :unsure: With a max and no spade fit, game probably won't be a happy thing. So, an invite showing spades only works if he has spade help whether mini or max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Fantastic, I even think the diamond king is a fine lead against 2♥X. But that does nothing to answer the question "in what way is the diamond king well placed". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Fantastic, I even think the diamond king is a fine lead against 2♥X. But that does nothing to answer the question "in what way is the diamond king well placed". It ain't sitting in front of the AQ like a dead duck...i.e. it's not worthless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Fantastic, I even think the diamond king is a fine lead against 2♥X. But that does nothing to answer the question "in what way is the diamond king well placed". It ain't sitting in front of the AQ like a dead duck...i.e. it's not worthless Again not answering the question! "Is the diamond king worthless/valuable?" and "is the diamond king well placed?" are different issues. I'll try to word it differently. In what way is the diamond king worth more in our hand than if it were in partner's hand? That is what "well placed" means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanp Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Maybe I used a bad word, but I think they are good kings. Partner has diamond values and the heart king is behind the heart bidder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Am I just a wimp today? I would sooner sign off than GF.Really? My partners don't overcall 1NT on just any 15-count, so I am more aggressive over a 1NT overcall than after a 1NT opening. It looks like both of my kings are well placed and I expect partner to be able to play the hand almost double dummy. I should at least invite, and if partner doesn't have spade support I have no reason to think 3S plays better than 3NT. If partner does have spade support I'm happy to be in game. And what hand are you worried about missing game on if partner can't bid it? What exactly does an invite look like to you here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanp Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 How about 10x Q109 AQJx AQ10x? I'd much prefer 3NT over 3S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Maybe I used a bad word, but I think they are good kings. Partner has diamond values and the heart king is behind the heart bidder. agreed and since Josh is hooked into sematics on the issue it is not "well placed" per se but the significance of "well placed" has been substantially reduced or eliminated in relevance. And it could serve as an entry to our hand in a spade contract Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanp Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 If I could invite in notrump that would be something I could consider btw. But I can't. Well, maybe I could double and bid 2NT over 2S (what's that?) but when partner bids 2S I no longer want to play notrump! Playing 3S is not very appealing to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 I would double, planning on playing 3N unless we have a 5-4 spade fit. Josh, what is your plan to invite? If it is going through some kind of transfer lebensohl, it seems crazy to me that you will play in three spades when partner is rejecting a spade invite. You might as well play 3N than play in a 5-2 spade fit at the 3 level. You might play 3S in a 5-3 as well when partner is rejecting, but I'd still rather be in NT myself. If RHO passed and you told me you would stayman and then bid 2N I would be on board with that, but since playing 2N will not option if you show 5 spades, and since I think 2S is too much of an underbid, somethings gotta give. You do have some options in playing below game if you start with X, like passing a 2N bid by partner or inviting over a 2S bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 I agree playing 3♠ opposite a rejection is unappealing. I still think based on values we are far from a game force. I absolutely believe Xspades then 3NT is more of an overbid than 2♠ now is an underbid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Suppose that I asked you to rank these hands J8754 K43 K4 J42 KJ874 K43 54 J42 J8754 K43 42 KJ4 in order of value. Which would come last? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 I also think that double is the winning call. You can usually get back to spades when this is right, and the defense is very good. I would love it if partner passes, and I can handle 2♠ (bid game) or any other call by partner easily (probably raise to 3NT). If partner bids 3♥, presumably a max without a heart stop, I suppose I bid 4♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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