Name the worst Convention

[1eyedjack]

Cappelletti

Cappelletti also goes by the names of Hamilton and Pottage - are there any more?

 

Pottage I think once said the main reason that he 'invented' the convention was so that his opponents would use it against him.

I fondly remember sitting down at a competition many years ago, and when I asked them what defence they played to 1NT they helpfully explained

 

"Not Pottage"

[Cascade]

Hey Wayne,

 

Wanna elaborate on why these conventions are so terrible?

 

Rain

I will give it a go:

 

Gerber

 

Probably more its misuse by the local masses. Here are some auctions I have seen:

 

2♣ 4♣* * Gerber

4NT** P!!!! ** 3 Aces

 

2♣ 2♦

4♣* 4♥ * Gerber

5♣* 5♦

? Now with an ordinary 5431 hand opener wonders which denomination to play in.

 

In general Gerber over 1NT is all that I play but it is not very useful. It occurs once in a blue moon and even then you rarely absolutely need it.

 

Support Doubles and Redoubles

 

Partner can be so poorly placed after this when he has only a four-card suit - especially a bad four-card suit.

 

I prefer the flexibility to raise with three or make an ordinary takeout double depending on hand type.

 

Negative Double of 1♥ promising four spades

 

This is one of the most inefficient uses of a bid ever invented.

 

1♣ (1♥) ?

 

Playing standard takeout doubles you have two ways to bid spades with a weakish hand and no way to bid diamonds.

 

Removing this from my system was one of the best improvements I ever made.

 

Baron over 2NT

 

I don't think I have ever bid a diamond slam because I was using Baron.

 

Various Defenses to 1NT

 

Nothing works over 1NT.

 

For years I played natural. Often when we had a club overcall we got a good score because noone else in the field could bid clubs.

 

Short minor suit opening in an otherwise natural system

 

One word:

 

Pre-emption.

 

Fishbein

 

Double for takeout is infinitely better.

 

Inverted Fishbein is better - over a 3♣ pre-empt Dbl is t/o and 3♦ is for penalties :lol:

 

3NT for takeout over a pre-empt

 

Double for takeout is so much better.

 

Many years ago I played a match against our national team and my team-mates were playing 3NT for takeout.

 

On one board I pre-empted 4♦ and our opponents fell over and we score a large number of IMPs. At the other table the player with my cards had only opened 3♦. I asked him why? He said if they play 3NT for takeout then I want them to use it as often as possible.

[luis]

This my Top 10

Please take it with humour some good conventions are here, not because they are bad but they do have some "danger" if your pd tends to forget some things...

 

#10: Namyats: Down 6 in 4d when you can make 6s? Run before your teammates arrive!

 

#9: Rubensohl: Very similar to Leb with the disctinction that you can play in a suit you don't have.

 

#8: Exclusion Blackwood. Ok I reckon this is useful just experience the thrill of being left to play in your void and you will understand why this is here.

 

#7: Capp. AKA "Crapp" not only this does nothing at all for your constructive bidding over 1N neither it does make the auction of the opponents more difficult, it can even make it easier.

 

#6: The "Ipioca convention" 1h-1s as a forcing NT with 1h-1N showing 5 spades. A convention you can say "can't hurt" until pd forgets you produce a beautiful 1h-1N;2s-Some Slam down 4.

 

#5: Gerber: A gerber sighting is actually more interesting than an UFO encounter so it is worth to play this convention only to see if you ever use it at all.

 

#4: Romex 3s over 2NT: 2N-3s transfer to 3N so nice. But wait... 2N-3N is NOT to play? You bid 3N with a balanced 5 over 2N and pd removes to 4c what now ? :-) The convention no partner can remember. (Note: In a Bermuda bowl a team played 4N after 3N-4m as "I forgot 3N was not to play, please pass"

 

#3: Blackwood: "No convention has damaged american slam bidding as much as blackwood" (E.Kaplan)

 

#2: Ghestem: AKA: How to play 3c on a 3-1 fit.

1d-3c pd smiles thinking you have a club preempt and you play 3c on a 3-1 fit in a hand where you can win 4 of a major. Oh dear...

 

#1: Texas: AKA: How to play 4h on a 2-1 fit

1NT-4h and if pd forgets about Texas you are in a disaster. Not only Texas is dangerous, South African Transfer serve the same purpose and are not likely to

produce accidents.

[1eyedjack]

#6: The "Ipioca convention" 1h-1s as a forcing NT with 1h-1N showing 5 spades. A convention you can say "can't hurt" until pd forgets you produce a beautiful 1h-1N;2s-Some Slam down 4.

Heh, in my first few years of playing, at college, I used to play with two players regularly. One would make a conventional bid intending it as natural, and then try to "recover" by bidding the suit again and again in the hope that one of the subsequent bids would be read as natural. The other (whom I eventually married) realised that there was no hope but to make the best of what has gone before. In the London University Congress, having failed to qualify for the consolation pairs, we had precisely this problem:

 

I opened 1H. Partner bid 1S with a 7-2-2-2 eleven count, actually showing fewer than 5 Spades (the "Ipioca convention"). I rebid my 4 card minor, and partner (we did not know what was meant by UI in those days, and neither did the opps) realised the error from my alert of 1S and then had to think about recovery. Realising that there was no future in continually bidding Spades (which would in fact have shown support for my minor) she came up with the intelligent rebid of 2NT.

 

Well, I was sitting there with 3-5-1-4 or 3-5-4-1 (I forget which) and enough to accept the invite. I thought that a 4-3 Spade fit might be the best spot, so I patterned out with 3S, which partner gratefully raised to 4S. Person on lead had xx of trumps, and led one of them expecting his partner to have four of them to cut down the marked ruffs. In fact his partner had the Kingleton. Deciding that leader had more likely led from xx than Kxx partner rose with the Ace in dummy to crash the King. Ah, happy memories.

[Trpltrbl]

I see many people disliking Gerber( I agree ) and Blackwood with close second Flannery( I agree ).

And even though SAYC is not a convention, I agree that it should have been left alone. Now it is even more confusing.

But keep em coming.

 

Mike :lol:

[luke warm]

I see many people disliking Gerber( I agree ) and Blackwood with close second Flannery( I agree ).

And even though SAYC is not a convention, I agree that it should have been left alone. Now it is even more confusing.

But keep em coming.

 

Mike :D

i think you have flannery on the mind :) ... it was actually only mentioned once (tho it's possible some more will say something, now that i've drawn attention to it heheh)... i do wonder why you call it a 'close second' tho... here's the list i found from all the posts, copied word for word (tho without some of the comments):

 

Gerber

Support Doubles and Redoubles

Negative Double of 1h promising four spades

Baron over 2NT

Various Defenses to 1NT

Short minor suit opening in an otherwise natural system

Fishbein

3NT for takeout over a pre-empt

Blackwood

I would also mention multi and ghestem

Lebensohl

Archimedes

1403, 102

Flannery and Cappelletti

Gambling 3NT

Equal level conversion

Weak jump shift not in competition.

Unusual 2NT (not the convention per se, but its most common application).

Strong 2C opening.

Any convention that gives controls before distribution at the first round of bidding (without a known fit).

Free negative bids

Use of negative doubles as "card showing", with little distributional info (e.g. generic 8-11, usually balanced, regardless of majors)

What about the 1s-overcall of a strong 1c, showing "13 cards"?

MUD

Point-Showing Step Responses to 2C

Roth-Stone System

Stolen Bid Double

#10: Namyats

#9: Rubensohl

#8: Exclusion Blackwood

#7: Capp

#6: The "Ipioca convention"

#5: Gerber

#4: Romex 3s over 2NT

#3: Blackwood

#2: Ghestem

#1: Texas

 

the "winners" seem to be gerber, namyats, capp, ghestem, with gambling 3nt given honorary mention... good ole flannery only got one vote (wtg ron!! heheh)

[JRG]

Though there are conventions I think are a waste of time, the list looks good enough already (especially with the summary). However, I have one comment:

 

The fact that you can play in a ridiculous contract if partner forgets the convention hardly seems a reason to bash it. That is because if partner forgets ANY convention you play, you are in trouble. Getting a bottom for playing in a 2-1 fit is no worse than getting a bottom for playing 3NT when the opponents run their solid suit for down 3.

[keylime]

You realize Jimmy that some pard's entire CC's is in the laundry list right? lolol

[keylime]

Ok, Ok, my top ten WORSE bridge conventions, and I have a sponsor: "Forcing Passes are Cool!"

 

10. 5 card minor overcalls at the two level - can we say "nearly automatic balancing double?" I like taking my 500's and up from folks using this foolish concept of bidding.

 

9. Bergen Raises - escalation of the bidding, lead directional doubles of the bids, and how can opener make it when they have opened on a min hand opposite a 7 point, 4 trump hand. Does this treatment ever get pluses on our side of the column?

 

8. Roman Keycard Blackwood, 0314 - why are we so compelled to use this treatment when 1430 is easier, better, and allows a queen ask more cheaply. Headaches abound, someone give me some naproxen sodium.

 

7. Law of Total Tricks - it ISN'T a law, it's merely a puny guideline that only works on balanced hands. With shape, we get "adjustments". Matter of fact, we got a book and a half on "adjustments". Well, I made "adjustments" to my frame of mind on GOTT (guideline of total tricks) and frankly I like being better "adjusted".

 

6. 2♥ as a double negative over a strong 2♣ opening - why are we punishing pard's potential heart hand? Why are we willing to wrongside the contract? Why are we even using a strong 2♣ opening? Why, huh, huh, huh?

 

5. Weak two bids - gee, let's tell the opps you're WEAK, that their PARD can be double dummied for most everything OUTSIDE of the preempt seat, and gee, let's through a little speed bump on the way to game....for the OPPONENTS.

 

4. Gerber being on over SUIT contracts - Folks, Gerber is a BABY food for pete's sake; does that mean it's easily digestible for bridge players too by playing this after 1M-2/3M? Graduate to solid food, and solid bidding....for my sanity.

 

3. Mini-Roman - why are we opening this hand showing four spades, 11-15, when good defenders will get what...lead trumps?! And furthermore telegraph the dummy's exact holdings....please someone kill this treatment!

 

2. 4NT as ALWAYS being ace asking - what ever happened to "Pard I'm lost, tell me where I'm going, we don't have any fit and I really want to find a harbor (harbour) to rest at PLEASE?!!" 4NT is bad enough for the majors, but for the minors it's worse than a sunburn in the Tropics. Then of course I can't forget the "keycard for last suit bid" abomination that 2/1'ers use. Yuck, phooey, bleck.

 

1. Capp vs. strong NT - what a HORRIBLE excuse of a treatment. Don't people realize good pairings will RUN from 1NTX or proudly STAND and force the strong hand to lead AWAY from strength? Have we ever heard of "declarer's advantage"?

[the hog]

" 2♥ as a double negative over a strong 2♣ opening - why are we punishing pard's potential heart hand? Why are we willing to wrongside the contract? Why are we even using a strong 2♣ opening? Why, huh, huh, huh?"

 

Why are we playing a strong 2C opening? Because some of us play in the real world and are sick of having to start our constructive auctions at the 2 or 3 level, Dwayne, - and this from someone who has played a big C system most of his bridge playing life.

 

There is nothing wrong with a 2H super negative, in fact it has a LOT of advantages over standard methods provided your continuations are well designed.

[keylime]

Ron,

 

C'mon, you can't tell me that a strong 2♣ system is that much more dangerous than a little bitty forcing 1♣ system? If anything, you want to get into a 2♣ auction MORE just because a lot of pairings don't have good agreements over interference. That, and many open 2♣ on some strange assortments of hands.

 

As with regards to the "real" world, I'm happy to say we have a sizeable forcing/polish/prepared club contingent in my unit. And to boot, not a lot of fuss made about it - truly an "open community". :D

[the hog]

"C'mon, you can't tell me that a strong 2♣ system is that much more dangerous than a little bitty forcing 1♣ system?"

 

I didn't say that Dwayne, what I said was that I got sick of constant intervention over 1C and having to start at the 2 or 3 level.

 

Theoretically I have NO doubts that a big C system - or a hybrid C system is far superior to a natural system. One of the main advs, which Richard often points out, is the ability to play lobs.

 

What totally annoyed me were the idiots who found it incumbent upon themselves to overcall 1C on any 4333 while supposedly playing some structure such as twerb. (I think you guys call this suction - it should be called twerp imho - thats Aussie slang for idiot!). After this happens repeatedly and the director gets called repeatedly because they have an agreement ..... etc etc it gets tiresome, and I can't be bothered with that sort of crap at the table anymore - it wastes good drinking time.

[keylime]

Good drinking time, this is true....

 

Recently, speaking of which, the ACBL in one of the last two casebooks (Long Beach, case 30) had an appeal talking about the use and potential abuse of Suction over a strong club. The panel had strong comments about the destructiveness of this treatment, and of "explosive (volatile)" conventions.

[inquiry]

Keylime said.. "2♥ as a double negative over a strong 2♣ opening - why are we punishing pard's potential heart hand? Why are we willing to wrongside the contract? Why are we even using a strong 2♣ opening? Why, huh, huh, huh?"

 

I happen to "waste" two bids with a double negative over two clubs. I use both 2♥ and 2♠. Two ♥ announces no likely trick for a ♥ contract, 2♠ says no trick for a ♠ contract, but one or maybe more (including ruffing value) for a potential ♥ contract.

 

Now I do this because I open 2♣ lighter than most people playing 2/1 GF, all I need is a hand with 5 controls, a trump suit suitable to play in game opposite a singleton (and usually suitable for slam opposite a singleton), and eight tricks in a major (think an acol 2♥ or 2♠ opening bid). Partner bids 2♥ (no tricks for ♥ and I have an 8 or 9 trick hand with ♥, you now what? He gets to play it at two ♥, maybe in his void... :-)

 

Ben

[1eyedjack]

If anything, you want to get into a 2♣ auction MORE just because a lot of pairings don't have good agreements over interference.

That is true. But the flip side is that most pairs have inadequate methods in the ABSENCE of interference. If they are destined to mess it up anyway, given a free run, giving them a winning option of a lucrative double to add to the other idiocies with which they might otherwise hang themselves is not gaining you much.

 

On balance I agree, but it is not all one way.

[keylime]

Since we are in disagreement about conventions, what about the worse general systemic approach? I'm sure that'll draw some comments.

[Trpltrbl]

SAYC

 

Mike :rolleyes:

[Trpltrbl]

Mike :lol:

i think you have flannery on the mind :( ... it was actually only mentioned once (tho it's possible some more will say something, now that i've drawn attention to it heheh)... i do wonder why you call it a 'close second' tho... here's the list i found from all the posts, copied word for word (tho without some of the comments):

 

good ole flannery only got one vote (wtg ron!! heheh) And mine of course

I think I do, but then again most European and other countries, but the USA, have even heard of Flannery or Capeletti :rolleyes: . And few others.

 

Mike ;)

[Chamaco]

I think I do, but then again most European and other countries, but the USA, have even heard of Flannery or Capeletti  :rolleyes: . And few others.

One point in favour of Cappelletti.

In Italy "cappelletti" is the name of a kind of pasta filled with hashed meat and cheese (much similar to Tortellini or Ravioli), very good with Bolognese sauce or even other kind of sauces.

 

Suddenly the perspective about Capp becomes much more ... appetizing !

 

Can you say the same about "DONT" , "Landy" or "CRASH" ? :lol:

[aisha759]

my least favorite convention is Gerber, never comes up, and when it does, cant even tell what it is!

 

Evil Aisha <_<

[slothy]

Reminds me of a bridge drive i was playing in local club when i just started playing bridge.

 

Partner opens 5NT and i alert it having no idea what it meant.

 

Opp looked at bid and asks me if this a convention. At which point i said "Well, yes but i have no idea what it means"

 

The other opp looks at my p and says very "What do you expect him to say to this ummmm bid"

 

He looked at her and said "Depends. If i make it i expect him to say 'Hi, Barman, a lager for me and a double celebratory scotch for my p"

 

In fact p had thought his RHO had opened 1 ♥ and he had

 

- - QJ98xxx KJ98xx and was making in his words a super unusual NT.

 

Well it got passed out and i bet you can guess what my hand was cant you <_<((

[keylime]

Ok, I have to admit, this was not one of KLP's finest hours.

 

Recently, the lovely Mrs. and I got into an auction:

 

1♣* - 1NT*

2♣ - 2NT*

3♥!! - 3NT*

4♦!!! - 5♦*

6NT - P - P X XX all pass for....-2800!!!

 

What happened? Well pard did something that was strange....3H was NATURAL, not asking!!! Talk about confusion. <_<

 

FYI: 1C-art, 16+, 1Nt - GF, 2 suiter, 2C - asking, 2NT - pointed or round.

[whereagles]

5. Weak two bids - gee, let's tell the opps you're WEAK, that their PARD can be double dummied for most everything OUTSIDE of the preempt seat, and gee, let's through a little speed bump on the way to game....for the OPPONENTS.

 

Well, for many years, I've tried all sort of 2-level preemptive bids, only to find out that natural 5-card weak twos (6-card if vuln) are the most practical and effective pressure bids available.

 

In fact, I deliberately messed up bits of my system in order to release the 2♣ opening bid for a weak two in clubs! This is actually easy to do in a strong club system, but you CAN do it even playing a natural system by putting the strong 2♣ opening into 1♣, though things can get messy if the 1♣ gets preempted.

[aisha759]

Someone mentioned least favorite system (i guess to add more opinions to this thread), and SAYC was mentioned.... why is that?? You can add all the gadgets you want and still play this system..... I play Acol and SAYC, and i find that many do not like ACOL either.... so maybe now you can all tell us your favorite system and why?

 

Not so Evil Aisha (today) <_<

[helene_t]

I suppose that bridge nerds have to hate SAYC for the same reason that computer nerds have to hate Windows.

 

But I don't think that "1m is natural but may be a 3-card" or "a 2-over-1 response is almost GF so you have to jump rebid with 15+ HCP" are serious candidates for the title of the worst convention. There are hundres of conventions that are much worse. What do you think of this one:

 

A 2♠ opening shows 12-14 HCP and a 4333 or 3433 shape. This is because in some versions of Dutch Acol, 1♥ shows 4-4 majors or 5+ hearts, but you would still prefer to avoid 1♣ on a 3-card.