Wackojack Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Playing 2/1 15-17NT and nmf. You open 1♦, partner responds 1♥. What do you rebid? [hv=d=w&v=e&s=saj74hk102da854c94]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Supplementary questions: 1. Swap the clubs and hearts around. Would you change your rebid? 2. Swap the 9♣ and A♦ . Would you change your rebid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I may be biased by knowing the hand. Anyway, I bid 1♠ as the hand is. With any of the changes you suggest I might bid 1NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Unlike a lot of posters who shun rebidding 1S with a balanced hand --and then use all kinds of checkbacks, but miss the 4-4 spade fit opposite a minimum response --I just bid 1S like a simple soul. Similar hand was in the recent ACBL bulletin bidding contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 "A lot of posters" ? Could you show me 5 posters who said they'd rebid 1NT over 1♦-1♥? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 No& No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 1♠ always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I bid 1♠ except in very extreme cases like Txxx Qx KJxx AQJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babalu1997 Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I bid 1 spades. I often remeber Max Hardy`s advice: opener rebids to describe. The description i want to give is, i am below 1nt range and the unbid suit is exposed. If the clubs were stopped, 1nt and that is matchpoint gold isnt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I bid 1♠ except in very extreme cases like Txxx Qx KJxx AQJ. That is my max ♠ holding for a 1NT rebid. What is your minimum ♠ holding for a 1♠ call in this auction? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zheddh Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Funny story. A couple of weeks back, actual hand played by me. On my table, i rebid 1S and we made 4S after 1C - 1H1S - 4S On the other table, 1C - 1H 1NT - all pass 1NT -1 [hv=d=w&v=b&n=sxxxhaxdaqckqjxxx&w=saktxhxxxdjxxcaxx&e=sq9xxhktxxdkt9xxc&s=sjxhqjxxdxxxc9xxx]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I bid 1N on the given hand and do so with the rounded suits reversed. This is a conscious decision, willing to miss the occasional 4=4 spade partial.... which is a fate that befalls me frequently with these hand types anyway, because I play a weak notrump in first and second seat (and in one partnership, when white in 3rd seat). Ironically, the first time I persuaded a diehard up the line bidder to try the method, we immediately missed a 2♠ contract to play in 1N. Opening leader led: spades! The 4-1 split defeated 2♠ while 1N made in comfort. Of course, that story is not proof of anything.... the rebid of 1N will often cost when we have a 4=4 partial available....times when we gain by avoiding the fit will be less frequent. In my view, the gains come from: 1: increased accuracy in minor suit game and slam bidding arising from the knowledge that bidding 1♠ promises shape 2: increased accuracy in finding the best partial, again arising from the knowledge that 1♠ promises shape. This edge is less valuable after a 1♦ opening than it is after opening 1♣, and I can see an argument for bidding up the line after 1♦ and bypassing spades, with a balanced hand, after 1♣, but there comes a point where consistency of approach is more important that fine-tuning agreements in partnerships that don't play that often. 3. Increased difficulty for the defence in balancing and lead decisions after a 1N rebid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I bid 1 spades. I often remeber Max Hardy`s advice: opener rebids to describe. The description i want to give is, i am below 1nt range and the unbid suit is exposed. If the clubs were stopped, 1nt and that is matchpoint gold isnt it? With all respect to the dead, I don't think Hardy ranks very high on most experts' lists of leading bridge theoreticians :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyhung Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Fine, I'll be the spokesman for the 2♥ camp. I choose 2♥ over 1NT because of the suit-oriented nature of my hand and the small doubleton worries me, and my followups can cater for a 3-trump raise. Yes, there are definitely downsides to bypassing spades, but my style is to only rebid 1♠ with an unbalanced hand. I certainly don't think my hand is worth bidding 1♦ ... 1♠ ... 2♥, I think that should show extras. When I do have an unbalanced hand, I have an advantage in being able to describe my two suits and unbalanced nature immediately, and when I don't have that hand, I don't lose as often as one might think -- you may be able to checkback over 1NT into your 4-4 spade fit, or partner may not have 4 spades. I'd bid 1NT with either change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I prefer 1nt > 2♥ > 1♠, but I understand this is a partnership style issue and any one of the bids is fine if partner expects it, IMO. For me I like 1♠ to basically promise a singleton or void. I'd open this hand 1nt playing a 12-14 nt and the fact that partner has 6 or more points and 4 or more hearts hasn't made me want to change the description of my hand. Partner will know that I have 12-14 and balanced with 4+ diamonds and less than 4 hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I like to bypass ♠ to immediately limit the strength of my hand. But I also like to have a better holding in the unbid suit, preferably Jx or better. But opponents will often lead ♠ in the auction 1♦-1♥-1NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Playing 2/1 15-17NT and nmf. You open 1♦, partner responds 1♥. What do you rebid? Dealer: West Vul: E/W Scoring: IMP ♠ AJ74 ♥ K102 ♦ A854 ♣ 94 Supplementary questions: 1. Swap the clubs and hearts around. Would you change your rebid? 2. Swap the 9♣ and A♦ . Would you change your rebid? easy one spade, always. 1) Responder will just assume I am 11-13 bal. Which I am very often.2) With 4=2=5=2 and 14-16 I will open 1nt often.3) Partner will note I did not jump rebid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I certainly don't think my hand is worth bidding 1♦ ... 1♠ ... 2♥, I think that should show extras. If you bid 1S with this hand you are not planning to bid 2H next. I see no reason to think that the combination of 1N/2D/2H/2S that you will get to after bidding 1S will be worse than playing in 2H opposite all of those hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyhung Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I certainly don't think my hand is worth bidding 1♦ ... 1♠ ... 2♥, I think that should show extras. If you bid 1S with this hand you are not planning to bid 2H next. I see no reason to think that the combination of 1N/2D/2H/2S that you will get to after bidding 1S will be worse than playing in 2H opposite all of those hands. Right, I would not be planning to bid 2♥ next, but just like bidding 2♥ directly will cause us to miss good spade partials, bidding 1♠ may cause us to miss good heart partials where partner has a weak hand with 5 mediocre hearts (more likely given your KTx). Even if partner only has 4 hearts in a bad hand, the worthless club doubleton and two heart honors also gives hope that even the 4-3 heart fit may play better than 1NT or 1♠. However, I am not saying that 2♥ is +EV vs. 1♠ on this particular hand. I think it's actually -EV, and if I were only dealt 4342s for my 1♦ openers, I'd want to be playing a system where I could rebid 1♠ on any 4342 hand. But I think in the context of my preferred rebidding style, I believe the +EV I gain from 1♠ promising an unbalanced hand when those hand-types occur outweighs the -EV action I have to take by raising to 2♥ on this hand, because I think -EV is small given the reasons I advanced. Note that everything had to be right for me to raise to 2♥ on 4342 -- either one of the changes mentioned by the OP causes me to rebid 1NT instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Yep exactly right, bidding 2H should be because your only options systemically are 2H or 1N. If you cannot systemically bid 1S it should be because you accept the losses but feel you gain more by bidding 1N with this hand and having a more well defined 1S bid. I disagree with the conclusion but agree with the thought process :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 2H always. Bidding 1S would show an unbalanced hand with 5+D and 4S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Hi, Without prior discussion, 1S. We schwitched to the style that makes a 1NT rebid, and I think showing your shape as fast as possibleis important, but you need to discuss this beforehand. As it is, overall I dont think it matters a lot. With kind regardsMarlowe PS: 2H is not an option for me, I only raise with 3 cardsupport, if I have a single, i.e. a 5431 shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Opener's rebids should be a matter of partnership agreement. To put things black and white, either play that you:o don't bypass a spade suit oro will rebid 1NT with a balanced hand and that as a consequence 1♠ is always unbalanced. or play that you will: o always show three card supporto show three card support when the hand is unbalancedo show three card support when you don't have 4 spadeso show three card support when you can't rebid at the 1 levelo only show three card support when you are stuck for a rebid (pretty much impossible after 1♦-1♥, but certainly possible after 1♣-1♠)o never show three card support. Supporting always shows 4 cards. Don't decide on a case by case basis what you will bid. Of course, exceptions are allowed but only when you know (rather than: think) that your hand is an exception to the rules. Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wackojack Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 [hv=d=s&v=e&n=sk852hq9853d102ck10&w=sq1093ha6d73cqj632&e=s6hj74dkqj96ca875&s=saj74hk102da854c94]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] I was sitting South and rebid 1NT which was passed out. -150. :rolleyes: When I first started posting on this forum I played Acol weak no trump. Way back then in 2005 it would not have occurred to me to have rebid anything but 1♠. Then I read this post:http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?showtopic=7310&st=0 Check-back? I had heard of it but wtp rebidding 1♠. xyz? Whats that? In my desire to improve, I learnt 5 card majors strong notrump and the various ways of playing check-back, albeit recognising that 4-4 major fits can be lost by playing this way. A rationalisation was that you would be no worse off than with acol 12-14 when you has a weakish hand with a 4-4 spade fit opposite a 12-14 no trump. Against that a 15-17 no trump opposite 5-7 would miss a 4-4 major suit fit, and Acol weak no trump would not. New resolution: I will always rebid 1♠ unless 4333 Justin-like lol!. Comparing the responses in this post with the 2005 posts, it is interesting to see that opinions are fairly evenly divided and that Justin, Mike on one side and Hog on the other have not changed their views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Your disaster happened because you played a style which did not fit your partnership. If you and your partner agree that after 1 Diamond 1 Heart your first priority is to show strength and shape with 1 NT, your partner should have known that 1 NT is often the wrong strain. You have at most 8 cards in the minors (44 or 53), else you had no 1 NT rebid. So, you must hold at least 5 card in the majors, so a fit is more then possible. The worst case is a 3244 or 3253 (not unlikely of course), where you have to play a 5-2 fit. So partner must have a tool do ask about your hand without leaving the 2. level. Without all this, KISS, bid 1 Spade like most do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Your disaster happened because you played a style which did not fit your partnership.<snip> I would formulate this one stronger: The disaster happened, because one did violate the partnership agreement. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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