Just checking

[jvage]

[hv=d=w&v=n&n=sj54h74dq832cjt87&w=sq92hqt2dt764ca54&e=s873hkj983da95c62&s=sakt6ha65dkjckq93]399|300|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

This happened yesterday at the club. I was East, playing with three young girls, unfortunately a relatively rare experience. My partner, West, is a beginner, N/S a bit more experienced. With N/S vulnerable and West dealer the bidding went:

West North East South

Pass Pass 2♥ X

Pass 2NT Pass 3NT

4♥ Pass Pass X

All pass

 

2♥ was weak, before the lead North said that 2NT should have been alerted (Lebensohl). She then asked me if this was the correct time to say this, and I informed her that it would have been if she had been declarer or dummy :)

 

She then became a bit embarassed and suggested we called the TD, which we did (playing TD, in practice he arrived at the table after the board was played). The TD's first statement (we are both members of our National Laws Committee) was: "I am sure I will rule against John, but you may first explain why I was called" :P

 

4♥ went down 3. If you ask West what she would have bid if 2NT had been correctly alerted and explained she would answer honestly "I don't know". She did have a long tank before bidding 4♥, making me (who understood what had happened) hoping for a pass, but worrying a bit whether if she did I would have any Logical Alternative to a heartlead :P

 

How would you rule?

 

John

[helene_t]

Two infractions occurred: the failure to alert the 2NT bid, and the premature correction by North which gives UI to South (who might have thought 2NT was natural or scrambling or whatever).

 

No damage from the lack of alert, I don't see how the explanation would influence West, especially if she's a beginner.

 

Probably no damage from the UI either.

 

So probably result stands.

[StevenG]

No damage from the lack of alert, I don't see how the explanation would influence West, especially if she's a beginner.

Surely not. West thinks the 2NT-3NT is a strong sequence and that 3NT is highly likely to be making. If she knew that 2NT showed a weak hand and 3NT not the normal response, I do not think it likely she would sacrifice, even as a beginner.

 

I think that NS should be playing in 3NT (leaving others to decide how many tricks),

[bluejak]

Let us say that typically a natural 2NT shows about 10 points, so the 3NT shows 15+. Let us say that typically a Lebensohl 2NT shows about 4 points, so the 3NT shows 20+. What difference?

 

No, I agree with helene_t, no damage.

[aguahombre]

No damage, as stated by helene and by blue. Also unlikely that South's new knowledge from the improper delayed announcement will affect the play in this case.

[duschek]

Agree with the majority here - I judge West's 4♥ bid to be independent of the explanations, so score stands.

[barmar]

Let us say that typically a natural 2NT shows about 10 points, so the 3NT shows 15+. Let us say that typically a Lebensohl 2NT shows about 4 points, so the 3NT shows 20+. What difference?

 

No, I agree with helene_t, no damage.

About the only difference is which hand you expect to have the ♥ stopper. But I don't see how that would impact the decision whether to sacrifice.

[kevperk]

In the auction, if 2NT is Lebensohl, then 3NT should be bid with a stronger hand than 16-17, but if West was given the correct information, West would also know that South might have thought North had shown 8-9 pts. Surely West would pass, knowing that North-South might be in a bidding misunderstanding, and may easily be too high (West's inexperience notwithstanding).

 

Kevin Perkins

[bluejak]

When you rule in MI cases, you do not give the players both the advantage of the correct information and the knowledge that their opponents may have got it wrong. An adjustment is what happens without the infraction [ok, what might happen]. No infraction, no reason to suppose opponents are having a bidding misunderstanding.