redouble=S.O.S.

[pirate22]

lets say North, ones partner opens 1n/t (either 12-14acol or 15/17 sayc)

You as south hold 0/1/2/3/4/5/6/7 points,your shape can be flat,2x4card suits,3x4 card suits,or a 5 card suit,can be cl/d/h/sp,what does south do ??? as a partnership we play stayman and transfers,and xx(redouble)is there, as well?

LETS RULE OUT 12-14,on BBO most players are 15+ n/t.

A------if next hand x's what do you do holding any of the above 0-7 points,and the shapes stated,

B------if the bidding goes 1n/t-P-P-x by 4th hand,and partner now xx(redoubles) or passes -pass by next hand ,now comes to you,again with0-7 and shapes stated.and we will assume pards 1n/t is 15 balanced,no 5 card suit could hold 2x4 and a xx somewhere(the xx holds 1/2 honours(AQ) but still has his 15 points.

there is a sys "rigal def and wiggle def," obviously if one has a 5 card suit,how do you employ it, in the responding position,thats the easiest answer,and you are lucky to have it,im interested in the other shapes.

lets have some input,before i reveal,what sys are out there,and how does one handle the situ's with 1/2/3 points??? regards

[helene_t]

In SAYC, system is on. I suppose xx would show a long minor but I could be wrong. Anyway, I wouldnt try to guess how a random p would take a rdbl.

 

Playing strong notrump I dont really care what we play as long as we have some agreement and as long as it doesn't depend on the meaning of the double (suppose opps alert the dbl and can only explain it in Klingon or some other obscure language then I still want to know what escapes we play).

 

Playing weak notrump I used to believe in SWINE but now slightly prefer natural. I really hate transfers in that situation.

[kenberg]

I generally play 15-17, fitting your question. My agreements usually are

 

XX shows a good hand if the double is artificial (single suit, for example). Assume now X is for penalties.

 

XX is a relay to clubs, i will pass or sign off in Ds.

 

2C asks for a major

 

2D and 2H are transfers.

 

2S ans 2N don't exist.

 

3 level bids are long and natural

 

No doubt one can do better, but this seems to do the trick most of the time.

[Mbodell]

Playing weak or mini nt I like both pass and xx as natural, at least by an unlimited hand. So pass says I think 1ntX is our best place to play. Especially w/r even down 3 might be a good score, and down 1 is often a good score white. 1ntxx says we got them, and we want to make sure we get our game bonus or penalize them.

 

Then other bids are some form of suction run outs so 2♣ shows ♣ OR ♦+♥ or 2♣ shows ♣+♦ OR ♥ depending on partner. Partner can make educated guesses from their hand and is usually conservative about advancing when undoubled. And if doubled they can pass to allow the partner to clarify. If the partner is a passed hand (either originally or over 1nt - p - p - X - p - p) then xx for business is too rare so now it is a puppet to ♣ showing ♣ OR ♦ OR ♣+♥ OR ♦+♠.

[pirate22]

ty for inputs so far--------

 

to narrow the search--the questions are directed to regular pards as opposed to random pick-ups-but its a good question when playing with good pards main bridge room,but one has to agree to methods

[barmar]

Many people who play weak or mini NT play that redouble is artificial, and pass forces opener to redouble. If they have a good hand, they will then pass the opener's redouble.

 

I was just kibbitzing some friends on BBO and they had that auction. 1NTXX+2 was worth a whole lot.

[pirate22]

Many people who play weak or mini NT play that redouble is artificial, and pass forces opener to redouble. If they have a good hand, they will then pass the opener's redouble.

 

I was just kibbitzing some friends on BBO and they had that auction. 1NTXX+2 was worth a whole lot.

yes agree barmar- that is part of a sys whether 12-14 n/t and can be used with 15/17 nt,

obviously responder had values hence the result,

let me ask what if responder has 1/2/3 points how do your friends proceed?

regards subject progressing

[awm]

I've stopped playing the "pass forces redouble" method for a rather funny reason. What seemed to happen a lot is that when I have the good hand, LHO takes a long time to pass. So we see the auction:

 

1NT - X - Pass(1) - Pass(2)

XX(3) - Suit bid(4)

 

(1) Forces XX

(2) Break in tempo

(3) Forced

(4) Running from his own penalty X on a fairly balanced hand

 

It seems (to me) that the suit bid is influenced by the break in tempo, but many national-level directors have repeatedly ruled that this is okay. Now the problem is that notrump opener doesn't really know that responder had the "strong pass" which muddles the follow-ups. If opponents had waited for 1NTXX to be passed and then run, we would be in a forcing auction, but now who knows? Not to mention that we have helped the opponents run to the best spot (i.e. gave them "slow pass" to show a hand without a clear suit).

 

Anyway, what I play now in many partnerships:

 

Pass = weak hand with clubs or semi-balanced

XX = business

2♣ = diamonds or both majors (4-4 or better)

2♦ = hearts or black suits (5-5)

2♥ = spades or both minors (5-5)

2♠ = clubs or the reds, more shape than PASS

2NT = shapely hand with two non-touching suits (5-5 or more)

 

This is suction, basically. It lets the stronger hand (opener) declare most of the contracts and puts the penalty doubler on lead. After the pass, opener bids:

 

XX = doubleton club

---> Responder's 2♣ is to play with clubs only, 2♦-2♠ are to play (usually 4-card suit)

2♣ = 3+♣

---> Responder passes with 4+♣, or bids 2♦ to show 4+♦ and usually a 4cM

Else = good five-card suit

[nigel_k]

Playing weak notrump, I'd recommend something like the following:

 

Immediate suit bid is natural to play

Redouble is spades and another

Pass forces redouble and includes two suiters without spades

 

I don't know if this arrangement has a name or is played by anyone else. It seems as good as anything at finding your best fit at a low level and has the advantages that opener can compete further when you have a 5-4 fit or a 4-4 spade fit, which are the hands you're most likely to want to compete on. Despite the double it could still be an evenly balanced part score battle. 4333 hands aren't catered for - you have to treat them as something else if you don't want to play 1NTXX.

 

I don't play strong notrump enough to know what works over that but I really doubt that system on is the best approach.