Simple bidding problem

[Hanoi5]

Butler tournament, screens in use. Your opponents are red and you're white:

 

♠T652

♥JT952

♦6

♣K84

 

It goes:

 

1♦ Pa 2♥

 

Which they alert as showing one of three hands: solid or semi-solid hearts 13+ HCP, balanced hand without 4-card Majors 13+ or ♦ support slam going hand.

 

It continues:

 

Pa 2♠ X 3♥

 

You ask about 2♠ and find out it's natural (extra question: does this sound normal to you as an expert?) and 3♥ shows the heart hand. Bidding goes on:

 

Pa 4♥ Pa Pa

 

You check again: 'are you sure 2♠ is natural?' 'yes, it is'.

 

Summary:

1♦ Pa 2♥* Pa

2♠* X* 3♥ Pa

4♥ Pa Pa ???

 

2♥ showed 6+ good hearts with 13+ HCP's. 2♠ was natural.

I had forgotten East doubled 2♠. Please change your answer if needed.

What do you bid?

[gnasher]

New answer now that we have the correct auction:

 

Pass is still clearcut. Knowing that partner has spades makes our hand worse defensively, because partner's high cards will be ruffed by declarer's small trumps. And I'm certainly not bidding 4♠.

Edited November 5, 2009 by gnasher

[Fluffy]

looks normal to pass

[andy_h]

Pass. They could be making +1.

 

And what do you mean by 2♠="does this sound normal to you as an expert?" I've never seen this convention being used but it would be sensible to play 2♠ as a relay ask. If they want to play it as natural, let them play it as natural.

[hotShot]

I pass.

 

And I would not have asked about 2♠ more than once.

 

If the explanation is right, I have 2♥ tricks and it's not sure that I get the ♣K and there is no guarantee that partner will make 2 tricks on his hand.

But my asking sure made it easier for opps to avoid bidding a slam and to locate the distribution.

 

If the explanation is wrong, they usually are in a bad contract anyway or if our side was damaged because of the misexplanation (highly unlikely because partner passed 1♦), the TD will adjust the score.

 

Edit:

I'll stick with my pass, but it's closer.

 

Now that there is a dbl over 2♠, there is a possibility that partner has a few values, but.....

If 2♠ is natural, than your LHO, you and your partner have a lot of ♠, so declarer may be able to ruff your partners ♠ tricks. RHO can't have much ♦ since your partner will have lots of them (otherwise he might have bid over 1♦), which leads to the conclusion that opener is short in ♣.

 

So I don't feel encouraged to dbl 4♥ by partners dbl.

[helene_t]

Pass wtp?

 

Edit: Oh partner doubled 2♠. Now it's close but I think I still pass. Dummy must be short in spades so partner's spades can be ruffed, and partner's double doesn't promise anything other than good spades. In fact he cannot have anything else or he would have overcalled to begin with. Besides they may make 5♦ if I scare them out of 4♥.

[pooltuna]

I'm a passer too and I thought this was going to be a lead question :)

[billw55]

This reminds me of a hand I played a couple years ago. I declared 4♥ against a 5-0 break, played cleverly (so I thought) to make it, chuckling when righty was forced to underuff dummy. I opened the traveller to find half the field making 5. Average minus!

 

So no, I don't consider double reasonable at all.

 

edit: OK, the OP changed the auction to include partner doubling 2♠. I still pass; they could run if I double, or not run and make it.

[peachy]

No bidding problem in this problem. Pass.

I would not have asked about 2S. If 2S it was not alerted, no reason to ask about it. If it was alerted, you asked, and they answered, no reason to doubt their answer and ask again. I find that annoying.

[Trinidad]

No bidding problem in this problem. Pass.

I would not have asked about 2S.  If 2S it was not alerted, no reason to ask about it. If it was alerted, you asked, and they answered, no reason to doubt their answer and ask again.  I find that annoying.

In many jurisdictions (e.g. The Netherlands), you are supposed to protect yourself. This is even more true if protecting yourself cannot cost.

 

In this case, screens were in use. Therefore, you can ask about 2♠ 27 times, without giving UI. (It will be annoying though.) Because of this possibility, in those jurisdictions, you will have to protect yourself when you can suspect that 2♠ should be alerted. A bridge player who is experienced enough that he will play with screens will know that in these situations 2♠ will often be a relay. Therefore, you can suspect that 2♠ should be alerted and you have to ask otherwise the TD will not give you redress if you were damaged due to the missing alert.

 

So you ask what 2♠ means and you get an answer. At that point you have protected yourself. End of story, no need to ask a second time.

 

If you ask me what I think of the idea that you have to protect yourself, I will try to be diplomatic and just say that I don't agree with it at all. (The underlying idea is that the bridge league in The Netherlands won't allow players to claim damage for a failure to alert on an auction like 1♥-1♠-Pass-2♥; ??, where "the whole world" knows that 2♥ is artificial.)

 

Rik

[Fluffy]

ok, since now the answers are after hannoi changed the original post and partner doubled 2♠.

 

 

 

Now doubling is more appealing since we can get control of the hand tapping declarer and getting a big number, but I think it is still a big gamble and pass

[Jlall]

Agree with pass.

[dellache]

Pass, wtp ?

[Trinidad]

Partner has doubled 2♠, after NS have shown two suits: diamonds and spades. Then partner's double is takeout, showing hearts and clubs and values.

 

This doesn't make sense at all. But I am not going to assume that partner made a mistake. I would double and lead clubs.

 

There are five possibilities:

I) Partner made a mistake with his double.

II) NS have a misunderstanding. Partner does have his double. 4♥ goes down a lot.

III) NS have a misunderstanding. Partner does have his double. 4♥ goes down a lot. Unfortunately, my double let's them find out and they switch to 5♦.

IV) Partner was misinformed somewhere in the auction.

V) I was misinformed somewhere in the auction. But I went out of my way to try and get the right information.

 

I am pretty sure this is a case of (IV) or (V). But I am supposed to judge the auction as it was explained to me.

Out of principle, I will never consider (I), unless I am 100% sure.

That leaves me with (II) and (III). I will feel sick if NS will bid a making 5♦, but even if they bid 5♦, it might go down on the power of partner's hand. Therefore, I double.

 

Rik

[Trinidad]

ok, since now the answers are after hannoi changed the original post and partner doubled 2♠.

 

 

 

Now doubling is more appealing since we can get control of the hand tapping declarer and getting a big number, but I think it is still a big gamble and pass

How do you play a double after

 

1♦-Pass-2♥*-Pass

2♠**-??

 

* A variety of GF meanings, doesn't promise any suit.

** Natural

 

Rik

[P_Marlowe]

2s natural is normal, what do you bid with 54

now i pass, the x of 2s does not exist, i may get redress, when i pass,

but if i do something insane now, how will i justify a possible redress,

and the worst that can happen are undoubled undertricks.

 

marlowe

[JanM]

I'd say that 2♠ as a relay is so normal that both West and the director should have done a better job of waking South up. "What would N do with a hand where s/he just wanted to know what you had?" would be a good question for West to ask. And the director surely should have realized that the auction sounded wrong and asked S to leave the table so that N could explain.

 

Failing that, shouldn't West still realize that partner is FAR more likely to have a lead-directing double of spades than anything else (the opponents had shown game-forcing values at the point East DBLd, surely it is much more likely that East has spade values than that s/he has a hand that wants to compete now but didn't over 1♦). And even if 2!s is "natural," it would be reasonable to play that DBL was lead-directing. By the end of the auction, West KNOWS that partner doesn't have hearts (S was the one doing the explaining and S told W that s/he had 6 hearts, so there aren't enough hearts for E to have length); I believe in trusting partner, but not when it's impossible for partner to have the hand that you think DBL should show.

[P_Marlowe]

even if 2s relais is more common, p cant have a hand which justifies a lead direting

x, p did not overcall 1s, and he did have the chance to this.

and after they are in gf. does he really wants to risk playing 2sxx.

sry, there is no hand for p.

 

marlowe