1NT without a five card major

[nigel_k]

A four part question:

 

1. Is is best to open 1NT with a 5 card major and 5332 shape?

 

A. Almost always

B. Only with five hearts

C. Only with 2533 precisely

D. Amost never

E. Other

 

2. Let's say you have agreed option D above - so you open 1H with 2533 shape and any strength. What is the best way to proceed if partner responds 1S?

 

A. Stretch the 1NT and 2NT ranges to cover everything from 11 to 19 and use your normal continuations.

B. Stretch 1NT only so it is 11-17 and use artifical continuations to sort out the range.

C. Rebid 1NT with 12-14, 2NT with 18-19 and bid a three card minor with 15-17

D. Rebid 1NT with 15-17, 2NT with 18-19 and bid a three card minor with 12-14

E. Other

 

3. How would you answer 1 if playing 2/1 with an unfamiliar but competent partner with no special agreements?

 

4. If you have agreed not to open 1NT with a five card major but have not discussed continuations, would you prefer 2A, 2C or something else?

[pooltuna]

1)A

2) leave 1NT as 11-14 change 2NT to 15-17 and 3NT to 18-19

3)A

4)C

[dellache]

1A. Because I play this. 1D also works depends on system.

2C.

3D.

4C.

[jdonn]

1 - A

2 - C

3 - A

4 - C

[Jlall]

I think rebidding a 3 card minor when you have 15-17- is the right approach.

[kenrexford]

Open 1NT with a five-card major. If you open 1H with five hearts and have 15-17, you have a problem. I agree that a minor rebid is probably the least of all evils to solve this problem, but it may just delay the problem.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 I believe A, but we play D, in a weak NT context

#2 2C, our 1NT rebid 1 range is a little streched

#3 1D,2C

#4 2C

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Jlall]

I think rebidding a 3 card minor when you have 15-17- is the right approach.

Just to clarify I always open 1N with 5 card majors. Just meant if you do not open 1N with this hand type, I think you should rebid a 3 card minor as opposed to something else.

[mike777]

A four part question:

 

1. Is is best to open 1NT with a 5 card major and 5332 shape?

 

A. Almost always

B. Only with five hearts

C. Only with 2533 precisely

D. Amost never

E. Other

 

2. Let's say you have agreed option D above - so you open 1H with 2533 shape and any strength. What is the best way to proceed if partner responds 1S?

 

A. Stretch the 1NT and 2NT ranges to cover everything from 11 to 19 and use your normal continuations.

B. Stretch 1NT only so it is 11-17 and use artifical continuations to sort out the range.

C. Rebid 1NT with 12-14, 2NT with 18-19 and bid a three card minor with 15-17

D. Rebid 1NT with 15-17, 2NT with 18-19 and bid a three card minor with 12-14

E. Other

 

3. How would you answer 1 if playing 2/1 with an unfamiliar but competent partner with no special agreements?

 

4. If you have agreed not to open 1NT with a five card major but have not discussed continuations, would you prefer 2A, 2C or something else?

I almost always open 1nt with a 5 card major, unless I judge the hand to be too good or have two small.

[Free]

1. E: My personnal prefference is only with a poor 5 card M. With my current partner I only open 1NT with 5-3 in the Majors, with 5-2 we open 1M (something partner likes so we don't play a 5-2 M fit when we have a 5-3 available).

2. E: Gazzilli. Otherwise C

3. A

4. C

[lowerline]

1E: Almost never with 5♠ (only with a very poor suit), but often with 5♥ (open 1♥ only with a very good suit).

 

2A+C: Stretch 1NT to a bad 15 and 2NT to a good 17. Rebid a 3crd minor suit with the hands in between, but having exactly 16 is an extra argument to open 1NT.

 

Although I've never done it that way, I like your option D. It looks consistent with the bidding after 1M-2m and 1M-1NT (forcing).

 

3 No change. My approach doesn't require upfront agreement. It's just a matter of choosing the lesser evil using hand evaluation.

 

4 I'd still open 1NT with a 5crd major suit. This doesn't interfere with partners bidding. If it leads to a bad score, I'll take the blame.

[Codo]

1 I have no idea, but the trend is to open many ( all?) hands in the NT range with 1 NT. I normally open 1 NT w/o 5 card majors and it makes no harm either. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, I can see not much difference in my results.

 

2 C, the French approach. It works, so no need to open 1 NT with 5 card majors.

 

3. No idea, on BBF A, this is sure.

 

4. I would assume 2 C for sure and bid that way.

[andy_h]

1: A

2: C

3: A

4: C

 

My preferred style is 1NT can have 5cM. If it can't then I definitely prefer rebidding 3card minior with the 15-17. If you hold the 12-14NT hand then partner will have more hands that is of the invitational range and you can easily describe it with whatever conventions you have over a 1NT rebid but if you had to rebid 3card minor for the 12-14 then it gets very hard to describe those hands. And if you rebid a 3cd minor with the 15-17 sometimes you can still make a further bid of 2NT to invite.

[kenrexford]

FWIW, I think 15-17 notrump bids with a five-card major are important to 2/1 GF but less so to standard. If Responder bids 2/1 with most 11-counts and many 10-counts, the pressure is relieved. If not, then the awkward problem emerges.

 

Struggling around with a minor rebid really does little to solve the problem. You kind of have to do this, though, I suppose. It just seems so much easier to open 1NT that discussion ofthe alternative seems silly.

[helene_t]

Maybe it's technically best to open many of those hands 1M. But with an unknown p, I open 1NT almost always.

 

If the agreement is "sometimes" to open 1NT, many criteria could apply. A.o.:

Doubleton OM ----> 1M

Doubleton clubs -----> 1NT

Vulnerable ------> 1M

[gnasher]

1. A

2. B

3. A

4. Would never be in this position.

 

I don't particularly like opening 1NT with a five-card major, but I like opening one of a major with 15-17 balanced even less.

[Finch]

1. I don't think anyone knows what is 'best', but I am in camp D

2. B, although it's more like 11-16 ro 12-17 depending on vulnerability

3. A

4. I wouldn't be here

 

What I sometimes find odd is the horror people have of a wide range rebid after 1H - 1S, but the complete acceptance of the even wider range 1NT response to 1M when playing 2/1, often with 'natural' rebids by opener.

 

I play 2C as artificial in both auctions.

[rduran1216]

A

C

A

C

[rduran1216]

to elaborate and agree with some things said already.

 

I'd rather open 1NT with my 15-17 than open 1H/1S and hear my partner say 1NT. Because then I have a horrible problem.

 

The only "downside" is that you may miss a 5-3 fit. But I always figure that length will help you in NT anyhow.

[Gerben42]

1. I think it's getting more attention than it should, if one way would be way better than wouldn't everyone do it? Although I'm on the A-camp playing a weak NT (makes life much simpler), playing 15-17 I would be in B.

 

2. The most common approach is C, which seems right. I thought a bit about D but then rejected it again.

 

3. I would adopt style B.

 

4. I would assume 2C.

[benlessard]

MP or imps ?

 

IMO for MP the best setup is

 

 

Non-forcing 1Nt (I think playing 1NT forcing in MP is a mistake)

 

2 - Opening 1M except when holding 16 pts. (with 15 pts you pass or rebid 1Nt, with 17 you rebid 2Nt). The thin game you ll missed are costly in imps but in MP you are compensated by the good boards when 3Nt is going down.

 

If you insist with 1Nt forcing than it make more sense to open 1Nt with 5M since if you open 1M you wont be able to play 1Nt unless you play KS inversion (wich is highly recommended in all variations)

 

 

At imps...

 

It depend on the rest of your system way too much to have a definitive answers.

We are opening all balanced hands by a strong club followed by 1Nt rebid or by 1Nt except in 3rd/4 seat regardless of 5M or not. Its not that we gain with those hands, its everytime we open 1M with an unbalanced hand that we are getting gains.

[hotShot]

To evaluate the usefulness of opening 5332 major holdings with 1NT, depends a lot on your agreed bidding style. You may solve a problem you did not have anyway.

 

Would you bid 1♠ over 1♥ holding:

1) 3♥'s and 4 or 5 ♠ ?

2) 5m and 4♠ with e.g 12 HCP ?

3) with only 4♠ cards?

[Rossoneri]

1. A

2. C

3. A

4. C

[Old York]

2. Let's say you have agreed option D above

I prefer not to have these agreements and play each hand on its merits, opening the major only if it is "rebidable" and opening 1NT if half the strength is in the short suits. Rebidding a 3 card minor is a fairly good option if one suit is exposed, or rebidding 1NT/2NT whenever prudent

 

Tony

[nick_s]

2. Let's say you have agreed option D above

I prefer not to have these agreements and play each hand on its merits, opening the major only if it is "rebidable" and opening 1NT if half the strength is in the short suits. Rebidding a 3 card minor is a fairly good option if one suit is exposed, or rebidding 1NT/2NT whenever prudent

 

Tony

These are good recommendations if playing a 4-card major system (like Acol) IMO. Playing a 5-card major system (note the forum), a 5-card major is hardly ever going to be rebiddable.