Cue bid natural or artificial?

[nick_s]

We had the following auction come up at a regional over the weekend.

 

(1♣) 1♥ (pass) 1♠

(pass) 2♣

 

..and had a difference of opinion about the meaning of 2♣.

 

I thought it was a general purpose force and pard thought it was natural and non-forcing. He asked what I would do with 5-5 in hearts and clubs, and I asked what other bid I could use to ask for more information. Since we could both see the other's point of view, he suggested I ask the forum since you guys tend to give such thoughtful responses ;).

 

Thanks in advance.

[aguahombre]

there was disagreement on this same situation about a month or so ago. The old Hardy books stated 2C was a five card club suit for sure, and the heart suit might have only been 4. However, most of the people on the forum seemed to like it as artificial. being an old fart, I was in the "natural" minority.

[Jlall]

Cuebid. Maybe it's debatable with 1C 1H p 1N p 2C, but with 1C 1H p 1S p 2C I find it hard to believe natural can be better.

[straube]

Artificial. I think that's standard. I forget what 2S would be.

 

I like Ruben's advances (not standard) and they arguably apply here.

 

2C=diamonds

2D=good heart raise

2H=simple heart raise

[Fluffy]

I had this problem so I went to ask Lantaron, he said: you cannot bid without a cuebid avaible. You need to have forcing bids.

 

It sucks to have the 5-5 hand bidding a hopeless 1NT, but it sucks even more to have a strong hand with no bid avaible.

[mich-b]

If my choices are "natural" or "general force" I prefer "general force".

 

I have met people who had a different use for the bid :

2♣ is a 3 card ♠ support , 2♠ is a 4 card ♠support.

This idea might especially appeal to those who freely respond 1♠ on a 4 card suit.

[pooltuna]

If my choices are "natural" or "general force" I prefer "general force".

 

I have met people who had a different use for the bid :

2♣ is a 3 card ♠ support , 2♠ is a 4 card ♠support.

This idea might especially appeal to those who freely respond 1♠ on a 4 card suit.

Hey you are in my bed :P The 1♥ overcall is not necessarily weak but could have anywhere from a normal TOX of 1♣ but felt the ♥ suit needed to be shown first to a distribution and strength where a TOX just did not seem right.

[gnasher]

Cuebid. Maybe it's debatable with 1C 1H p 1N p 2C, but with 1C 1H p 1S p 2C I find it hard to believe natural can be better.

Yes. In the earlier thread, I argued for playing it as natural after a 1NT advance, but it's different after 1♠, because:

- The artificial cue-bid is far more valuable: you have two wide-range hands and several possible strains, and

- A natural 2♣ is less useful, because advancer hasn't implied any club length or strength.

[aguahombre]

You are all probably right. I just thought that with 5 ways to show spade support (2s, 3s, 3c, 4C, 4D), and at least two ways to show more length in hearts, and one way to show diamonds --all within the roughly 10-17 range, it couldn't hurt to have 2C show clubs. If looking for a club stop is important, maybe partner will know he has one after some other rebid by me.