takeout double

[gwnn]

x

Qxxxxxx

xxx

xx

 

all vul imps:

 

1♠-p-1NT-2♣

x*-p-?

 

* = slow (but you can be 100% that it's takeout)

 

Please don't tell me that the best way to post these hands is without the UI. I wonder what you would have done in my place, when it was a quite obvious BIT.

[karlson]

I would just bid 2♥, with or without the hesitation.

 

Not really clear to me what the hesitation suggests. If he was thinking of passing, perhaps his hand sucks and I'm supposed to hang him. But maybe he was thinking because he was offshape (say, doubleton diamond) in which case bidding more might work out well. Or maybe he was thinking of bidding 2♥, that would be good for us too.

 

Anyway, I can see someone making an argument for 3♥, and if that's what they chose, I wouldn't really buy the argument that it was suggested by the hesitation.

[Jlall]

pass. JK just put eye drops in!

[pooltuna]

x

Qxxxxxx

xxx

xx

 

all vul imps:

 

1♠-p-1NT-2♣

x*-p-?

 

* = slow (but you can be 100% that it's takeout)

 

Please don't tell me that the best way to post these hands is without the UI. I wonder what you would have done in my place, when it was a quite obvious BIT.

I believe the terminology is "Pass is an illogical alternative" ;)

[Jlall]

Misread auction lol, 4H

[hanp]

Nonsense was here.

[helene_t]

Maybe I am supposed to bid 3♥ because partner's pause suggests it's a less than ideal t/o double?

 

I think I bid 2♥ anyway.

[P_Marlowe]

2H.

 

If it is the partnership agreement, which it would be

for us, than I dont see a problem with 2H.

 

3H would be no option for us, since this would show

a constructive hand.

We currently play a 3H response to a 1S opening as 4-7

with 7 hearts, and a delayed 3H bis as 8-(-)10 with 7

hearts, so 3H is out.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[billw55]

Am I misreading this? I bid 1NT with seven hearts and a 2-count?

[gwnn]

the terror!

[hatchett]

We currently play a 3H response to a 1S opening as 4-7

with 7 hearts, and a delayed 3H bis as 8-(-)10 with 7

hearts, so 3H is out.

 

 

LOL so you wouldn't bid 4♥ or something even stronger with this after a takeout double.

 

I thought I was the one misreading the problem seeing all the 2♥ calls.

[billw55]

So I am curious. If you bid 1NT then hearts with

 

x

Qxxxxxx

xxx

xx

 

then how do you bid, say,

 

xx

Qxxx

Kxxx

Qxx

 

or maybe

 

x

Kxxx

QJxx

xxxx

 

or any of many similar hands? How will partner distinguish?

 

Would you bid this way with only ♥Jxxxxxx? How about ♥xxxxxxx?

[helene_t]

then how do you bid, say,

 

xx

Qxxx

Kxxx

Qxx

 

or maybe

 

x

Kxxx

QJxx

xxxx

1NT and pass (unless partner makes a forcing rebid). Probably 2♠ if p rebids 2♣, though.

 

1♠-1NT

2♣-2♥

shows (5)6+ hearts and a weak hand (max 9 points, less if you have 7 hearts)

 

1♠-1NT

2♣-3♥

shows 6 hearts and some 10 points (or a little less if you have 7 hearts)

[billw55]

I mean on this auction, where lefty interferes and partner doubles for takeout.

[helene_t]

Ah OK. Then I bid 2♥ on any weak hand with 4+ hearts. If opener bids again (say 3♦ or 2NT) then I will pass with the balanced hand but bid 3♥ or 4♥ with the long hearts.

[billw55]

OK.

 

So, from opener's point of view, responder's sequence shows perhaps 0-8? For that matter, the 1NT call by itself shows maybe 0-10? Won't such wide ranges make it hard for opener to make a good decision?

 

Sorry for the silly questions, I am trying to learn something here.

[gnasher]

With the two bad balanced hands posted by billw55 you bid 2♥. With the much better hand in the original post you bid 3♥ or 4♥, depending upon how aggressive you are.

 

If the double shows extra values, I think you should bid 4♥. Partner can't be much worse than KQxxx Kxx AQxx x or KQxxx Kxx AQx Ax.

 

Does the double show extras? It would be nice to be able to show one's shape with a minimum 5(43)1. If double doesn't show extras, 3♥ is enough.

[gwnn]

I guess this is an improper question but does the fact that you noticed partner's hesitation before oblige you in any way to do something? Some people argue that it's inconclusive, some people argue that it demonstrably suggests that partner is weak i.e. bidding weakly could be more successful. I still don't know.

 

(Iceland has the advantage that I have no UI from partner's misinformation but the disadvantage that there are no screens)

[pooltuna]

Am I misreading this? I bid 1NT with seven hearts and a 2-count?

you missed the Forcing part of 1NT :)

[pooltuna]

I guess this is an improper question but does the fact that you noticed partner's hesitation before oblige you in any way to do something? Some people argue that it's inconclusive, some people argue that it demonstrably suggests that partner is weak i.e. bidding weakly could be more successful. I still don't know.

 

(Iceland has the advantage that I have no UI from partner's misinformation but the disadvantage that there are no screens)

you are ethically required to choose from among the logical alternatives not suggested by the hesitation. Generally that means you have to pass :)

[Jlall]

With the two bad balanced hands posted by billw55 you bid 2♥.  With the much better hand in the original post you bid 3♥ or 4♥, depending upon how aggressive you are.

 

If the double shows extra values, I think you should bid 4♥.  Partner can't be much worse than KQxxx Kxx AQxx x or KQxxx Kxx AQx Ax.

 

Does the double show extras? It would be nice to be able to show one's shape with a minimum 5(43)1.  If double doesn't show extras, 3♥ is enough.

I don't think double shows extras, but why does it matter? If he has a minimum they have 10 clubs and 26 HCP or whatever lol.

 

I think it shows significant extras if it has a doubleton club though.

 

4H is the same as 3H since partner is "always" going to bid 4H, and even if he has a pass we want to bid 4H as a preempt. The only difference is 3H doesnt preempt LHO as much. Something really weird is happening if RHO has a pass, LHO should have a strong hand with long clubs, bidding 4H might well get him to bid 5C.

 

I think the 2H bidders are playing a different game than me though Oo.

[ONEferBRID]

OK.

 

So, from opener's point of view, responder's sequence shows perhaps 0-8?  For that matter, the 1NT call by itself shows maybe 0-10?  Won't such wide ranges make it hard for opener to make a good decision?

 

Sorry for the silly questions, I am trying to learn something here.

Bill... your questioning isn't silly... the 1NT was insane ( or at least LOL ) .

[hatchett]

the 1NT was insane ( or at least LOL )

 

LOL

[lamford]

I bid 2NT, which is a pre-emptive 3D or 3H bid, and partner puppets with 3C to find out which; is this not completely standard methods in the modern world?

[gwnn]

maybe we should make two threads lol

 

anyway i bid 4♥, i think id have bid 4♥ anyway. partner had a nice 6331 and i made 5. I would have made 6 if we had bid it actually.

 

axxxxx

akx

aqx

k

 

of course i dont think he'd have passed 2♥ or something