Unknow Mini-Splinters

[Phil]

Someone at our club came up with an interesting idea:

 

1♦ - 1♠

3♥

 

as an unknown mini-splinter in either ♥ or ♣'s. If responder wants to know, responder bids 3N, or can just signoff in part score or game.

 

This partially follows the principle about unspecified splinters like 1♥ - 3♠ or 1♠ - 3N.

 

The main drawback I can see is that sometimes responder will need to know if its specifically heart shortness for game. But this seems like a good trade for most of the time you bid game and don't want to tip off the splinter for the opening lead. Plus, you can show the club mini splinter this way which might be important for slam.

 

I suppose this would also work for 1♣ - 1♥ - 3♦ to show a ♦ or ♠ mini-splinter.

[helene_t]

Unknown minispintes should be able to clarify below the 3-level. How does responder say he wants to be in game opp. one splinter but not opp. the other?

 

Use 3♣ as an unknown minisplinter and 3♥ as a JS in clubs :)

[maggieb]

Plus, you can show the club mini splinter this way which might be important for slam.

IMO this is by far the biggest (and basically, the only real reason) someone should/would consider playing this. Also responder can frequently take a good guess at which suit the shortness is at, so this convention can be good even for game bidding.

 

I wouldn't play this just because I'm the forgetful type and this isn't a really common auction, but overall I think it's fine/good (unless I'm missing something) if you think you can remember. Also I just want to add that if you fail to alert, some LHOs can cause you a lot of problems, claiming that he would've led (whatever is the most successful lead on this particular hand) had you alerted correctly.

[dake50]

Try jump raise as mini-splinter in the other major OR mixed limit raise. Then only C-splinter is ambiguous.

[jdonn]

Phil this idea is unnecessary. You lose showing when you have heart shortness for a game invite. But for slam you could already find out, just play this:

 

1♦ - 1♠ -

3♠ - 3NT = Shortness ask.

 

So I think he has lost something and gained essentially nothing.

[straube]

I like jump reverses (when available) to show the 18-19 balanced hand with four trump.

 

I think its worth noting that 1m-1M, 2N stops short of game with 18-19...giving responder leeway to introduce a major when he's light, but 1m-1M, 4M is the standard way of showing 18-19 balanced.

 

Also, 1m-1M, jump reverse as 18-19 leaves room to cue bid.

 

Of course, there's advantage to minisplinters. They happen fairly often and when the sequence goes 1m-1M, 3M there is an inference that responder doesn't have shortness in the available splinter. E.g. 1C-1H, 3H doesn't have diamond shortness (but may well have spade shortness)

[Phil]

Phil this idea is unnecessary. You lose showing when you have heart shortness for a game invite. But for slam you could already find out, just play this:

 

1♦ - 1♠ -

3♠ - 3NT = Shortness ask.

 

So I think he has lost something and gained essentially nothing.

Josh (Justin?) why would you waste 3N as shortness ask when the only shortness can be clubs? Non-serious seems like a much better use.

 

Otherwise I agree. I'm not enamored with the idea, but I thought I'd bring it up for input.

[helene_t]

Josh (Justin?) why would you waste 3N as shortness ask when the only shortness can be clubs? Non-serious seems like a much better use.

Why would you need non-serious here? Opener's strength is well defined. Responder just cuebids with slam interest and signs off (or passes) without.

[maggieb]

Phil this idea is unnecessary. You lose showing when you have heart shortness for a game invite. But for slam you could already find out, just play this:

 

1♦ - 1♠ -

3♠ - 3NT = Shortness ask.

 

So I think he has lost something and gained essentially nothing.

Josh (Justin?) why would you waste 3N as shortness ask when the only shortness can be clubs? Non-serious seems like a much better use.

 

Otherwise I agree. I'm not enamored with the idea, but I thought I'd bring it up for input.

I play this as an ask, not a shortness ask.

 

4♣ = club shortness

4♦ = 18-19 bal, good diamonds

4♥ = heart shortness

4♠ = 18-19 bal, bad diamonds

 

And you might ask me why I wouldn't just bid 3♥/4♥ with shortness. I guess I'm a little weird, but I have my own reasons.

[jdonn]

Phil this idea is unnecessary. You lose showing when you have heart shortness for a game invite. But for slam you could already find out, just play this:

 

1♦ - 1♠ -

3♠ - 3NT = Shortness ask.

 

So I think he has lost something and gained essentially nothing.

Josh (Justin?) why would you waste 3N as shortness ask when the only shortness can be clubs? Non-serious seems like a much better use.

 

Otherwise I agree. I'm not enamored with the idea, but I thought I'd bring it up for input.

I disagree, I don't need serious/non serious slam tries when someone is already in a tightly defined range such as with 3♠, you will do just fine by cuebidding. I only want it when one player is either unlimited or hasn't tightly defined his range.

 

I mean think about it, if you're invitational to slam you are probably much more interested in whether a partner who has shown (say) 16-18 has shortness in a particular suit (which is the only one where he can be short) than whether he has 16 or 17 or 18.

[Phil]

I mean think about it, if you're invitational to slam you are probably much more interested in whether a partner who has shown (say) 16-18 has shortness in a particular suit (which is the only one where he can be short) than whether he has 16 or 17 or 18.

I play mini-splinters as a wider range than you; a hand that would sign off in 4, but also a hand that would move over a big splinter, so there is some utility with non-serious.

 

Most play it as a tighter range, but even then, I still like to parse the range, and I hate 'exceptions' for serious / non-serious and would just assume keep it consistent when we have a 4-4 + fit. This is from years of crappy results when it was ambiguous in cases like this.

 

And I like anything better than to specifically ask for club shortness LOL. Baby Blackwood anyone? :)

[jdonn]

Well I normally play 3♥ as something else so for me 3NT asks for any shortness. But I would still use it even if I could have bid 3♥. I don't see why the fact he can only be short in one suit changes anything. You are still very interested in knowing.

 

Also the fact a 3♥ bidder could be a hand 'too strong' to splinter is a red herring. Responder can just ignore that possibility, bid game if he doesn't see slam opposite 16-18, and over a game bid (so more than a bare minimum) opener is easily in a position to take control with blackwood.

 

Also I'm not making an exception on serious 3NT for this one auction, my rule always is not to use it if partner is within a limited range. So there is no ambiguity (unless I forget my 3NT convention anyway but that's another story, I certainly won't think it's serious or non).

[Jlall]

Non serious is bad in this auction (IMO!)

 

Let's put it this way, partner has basically 3 hand types for 1D 1S 3S:

 

1) Short clubs, probably in the 14-16 range.

2) Balanced with 18-19-

3) 4252 with about 16-17

 

You can also include some hands with short hearts and like stiff honor that don't want to mini splinter, those should also be in the 16-17 range.

 

So basically opener has 3 completely different types of hands. Obviously responder wants to know which type of hand opener has in order to evaluate his hand for slam purposes.

 

Does it make more sense for opener to split his hand types into serious and non serious, likely when he has no idea which he has as it depends totally on what type of hand you have, or does it make more sense to give responder the ability to ask what type of hand partner has?

 

I think the latter is clear.

 

Just play 3N asks then 4C=short clubs, 4D=balanced 18-19-, 4H=4252, or a hand wrong for a mini splinter in hearts (stiff K). 4S= club void

 

Over 4C, you can have last train available since short clubs is the widest range, and opener can move accordingly. The other hand types are well defined enough that responder can judge what to do pretty accurately.

 

The only hand types where opener really needs to know what responder has are when responder has shortness somewhere.

 

So play that responders other bids besides 3N shows shortness. That way opener can do the evaluating.

 

Alternatively you can play 4 of partners minor shows a double fit, and the other bids show shortness.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Jlall

[Phil]

Good stuff from Justin (similar to Maggie's)

Now this I could play. Its more functional than asking "do you have a club s/v".

 

Josh, what exactly do you play 3♥ as?

[jdonn]

Good stuff from Justin (similar to Maggie's)

Now this I could play. Its more functional than asking "do you have a club s/v".

 

Josh, what exactly do you play 3♥ as?

Game forcing with long diamonds. Mini splinters easily win on frequency, but what I play it as now is much more of a problem hand, and allows you to trust the 3♣ and 3NT rebids by opener which I think is important.

 

Btw I do play 3NT shortness ask,

4♣: Short clubs

4♦: 4252

4♥: Short hearts

4♠: 18-19 balanced

I didn't realize you thought I was playing all hands without short clubs bid 4♦ or something lol.

[Jlall]

Good stuff from Justin (similar to Maggie's)

Now this I could play. Its more functional than asking "do you have a club s/v".

Sorry I typoed I meant to put at the end:

 

4S=club void.

 

Also I have 4D and 4H as they are because I will often open 1N with 4252 which makes that hand less frequent than 18-19- type hand, and obv you want 4D to be the more frequent hand type so you can last train over that one. For the same reason I think in jdonns scheme he should switch 4D and 4S.