zheddh Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 What is opener's rebid after a forcing NT with 5-4-(0-4) shape? after 1♠ - 1NT I used to think 2♥ was clear but i have met people who seem to respond 2♦. Does this change if the NT is not forcing as in SAYC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Always 2♥. It's still possible that game is on and the most likely game will reside in hearts (as opposed to 5m). Further developments may allow me to bid 3m to pattern out and if I had started with 2m over 1NT, then I will never be able to get my 4card heart suit across and plus, 1S-1NT-2m-2S/2NT-3H will take up more space than 3m had we started with 2♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Always 2H but with 5044 bid 2C unless you are strong enough to make a third bid over a minimum bid from partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Always 2♥, as Jlall said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 FWIW, I've dabbled in a thought here. The idea is to play what I would call "Opener's Bart" here. If you assume that it would not be insane to play that a 2♠ opening shows spades and diamonds and intermediate values, then it is not unreasonable to also have the auction forced to at least 2♠ when Opener has spades and diamonds and intermediate values but opens 1♠. Not exactly the same, but... If you accept that premise, then 1♠-P-1NT-P-2♦ could be forcing, showing either spades and diamonds OR spades and hearts but weak. 1♠-P-1NT-P-2♥ would then show spades and hearts and extras. After 2♦ (spades and diamonds or spades and hearts but weak), Responder assumes both majors and picks. If Responder picks hearts, Opener converts to 2♠ if he actually had spades and diamonds. If Responder picks spades, and Opener had spades and diamonds, 2♠ is probably the right contract, but Opener might bid again (would pass with weak and majors, so any new bid confirms real diamonds, now extras). If Opener happens to have 5440 spade exactly, he could then opt to bid 2♦ or 2♥ as appropriate. There is also the possibility of 1♠-P-1NT-P-2♦!-P-2M-P-3♥, confirming 5440 shape. This would be even better if Opener had the option of, say, opening 2♠ or 2♦ to show spades and diamonds and weak (such that 1♠-P-1NT-P-2♦! alwasy is done with extras when Opener has diamonds), but that might not even be necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 FWIW, I've dabbled in a thought here. The idea is to play what I would call "Opener's Bart" here. If you assume that it would not be insane to play that a 2♠ opening shows spades and diamonds and intermediate values, then it is not unreasonable to also have the auction forced to at least 2♠ when Opener has spades and diamonds and intermediate values but opens 1♠. Not exactly the same, but... If you accept that premise, then 1♠-P-1NT-P-2♦ could be forcing, showing either spades and diamonds OR spades and hearts but weak. 1♠-P-1NT-P-2♥ would then show spades and hearts and extras. After 2♦ (spades and diamonds or spades and hearts but weak), Responder assumes both majors and picks. If Responder picks hearts, Opener converts to 2♠ if he actually had spades and diamonds. If Responder picks spades, and Opener had spades and diamonds, 2♠ is probably the right contract, but Opener might bid again (would pass with weak and majors, so any new bid confirms real diamonds, now extras). If Opener happens to have 5440 spade exactly, he could then opt to bid 2♦ or 2♥ as appropriate. There is also the possibility of 1♠-P-1NT-P-2♦!-P-2M-P-3♥, confirming 5440 shape. This would be even better if Opener had the option of, say, opening 2♠ or 2♦ to show spades and diamonds and weak (such that 1♠-P-1NT-P-2♦! alwasy is done with extras when Opener has diamonds), but that might not even be necessary. On that idea, I prefer to have some opening bid show 5-4/5-5 in the blacks and play transfers over 1♠-1NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Always 2H but with 5044 bid 2C unless you are strong enough to make a third bid over a minimum bid from partner. Smart move 2♥ would be bad with 5=0=4=4. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 FWIW, I've dabbled in a thought here. The idea is to play what I would call "Opener's Bart" here. If you assume that it would not be insane to play that a 2♠ opening shows spades and diamonds and intermediate values, then it is not unreasonable to also have the auction forced to at least 2♠ when Opener has spades and diamonds and intermediate values but opens 1♠. Not exactly the same, but... If you accept that premise, then 1♠-P-1NT-P-2♦ could be forcing, showing either spades and diamonds OR spades and hearts but weak. 1♠-P-1NT-P-2♥ would then show spades and hearts and extras. After 2♦ (spades and diamonds or spades and hearts but weak), Responder assumes both majors and picks. If Responder picks hearts, Opener converts to 2♠ if he actually had spades and diamonds. If Responder picks spades, and Opener had spades and diamonds, 2♠ is probably the right contract, but Opener might bid again (would pass with weak and majors, so any new bid confirms real diamonds, now extras). If Opener happens to have 5440 spade exactly, he could then opt to bid 2♦ or 2♥ as appropriate. There is also the possibility of 1♠-P-1NT-P-2♦!-P-2M-P-3♥, confirming 5440 shape. This would be even better if Opener had the option of, say, opening 2♠ or 2♦ to show spades and diamonds and weak (such that 1♠-P-1NT-P-2♦! alwasy is done with extras when Opener has diamonds), but that might not even be necessary. On that idea, I prefer to have some opening bid show 5-4/5-5 in the blacks and play transfers over 1♠-1NT. That works too, except that it doesn't have an obviously sexy name like "Opener's Bart." You'd have to call it something interesting. On a more serious note, do transfers allow you to define the strength of the major two-suiter without bypassing 2♥? Maybe 2♣ as a relay to diamonds but possibly weak with both majors, such that 2♦ shows majors but better than average? Or, 2♦ weak majors but 2♣ might be strong with majors instead of diamonds? Something like that would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 2H always, don't hide a 4-card major unless there is compelling reason not to show it. But I don't know what that reason could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 On that idea, I prefer to have some opening bid show 5-4/5-5 in the blacks and play transfers over 1♠-1NT. That works too, except that it doesn't have an obviously sexy name like "Opener's Bart." You'd have to call it something interesting.How about "Moulin Rouge"? :) Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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