red dwarf Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 i have been looking at roman key card with the intention of adding it to my game as it seems to be a very popular convention used by most players, but i see there are 2 versions, 0341 and 1430. My question is what is the difference between the two? and which one if any is the bettter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 This has been a topic in the past, I suggest you look it up there: http://bridgebase.lunarpages.com/~bridge2/...pic=129&hl=RKCB :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Hi Red, Free is right, because he started a post asking this very question. You can find it at this link RKCB 0/3, 1/4 or 1/4-0/3 In that thread I give a link to Kantar's online book on RKCB. He advocates using both, depending upon which partner is stronger. I use to use both, using 0/3 first if trumps were a minor, and 1/4 first is a major. I think if you are going to use only one (the simpliest apporach), the best is to go 1/4 first. Anyway, it is at least fun to read the first chapter of two of Kantar to see the theory on why it is best to vary the meaning based upon stregth of the hand, but to find a partner who is willing to wade through 23 chapters on RKCB takes a while, so from a practical standpoint, it is unlikely you will not be able to play Kantar's methods. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Hi Red, Free is right, because he started a post asking this very question. You can find it at this link RKCB 0/3, 1/4 or 1/4-0/3 In that thread I give a link to Kantar's online book on RKCB. He advocates using both, depending upon which partner is stronger. I use to use both, using 0/3 first if trumps were a minor, and 1/4 first is a major. I think if you are going to use only one (the simpliest apporach), the best is to go 1/4 first. Anyway, it is at least fun to read the first chapter of two of Kantar to see the theory on why it is best to vary the meaning based upon stregth of the hand, but to find a partner who is willing to wade through 23 chapters on RKCB takes a while, so from a practical standpoint, it is unlikely you will not be able to play Kantar's methods. Ben Kantar's book is not online anymore :P. I think a new commercial paper book is coming out soon, so the web link was disabled. If I am wrong (hopefully) please someone points me to the new web page with the online Kantar material ! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Yes, I've seen that his site is completely new! More commercial that is :) Anyway, I was smart enough to copy paste all his chapters in a word document. If you want it, pm me your email and I'll send it to you :P (hope this isn't a copyright violation) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 lolol... well buddy, i'm not a lawyer (tho i do play one on tv), but i'd say off the top of my head that it's probably *some* kind of infringement ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Your right. Kantar has infact published his kantar RKCB, at a list price of 18.95. You can find a link to this on his webpage. His ideas are really nice, and if you and your partner are trying hard to be world class, and don't mind studying and studying, this will be a great book I guess. I will buy a copy, but more for the theory than to actually play, as it is difficult to get your partner to learn, much less agree to all of his ideas. ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 I wonder if Eddie even gets out anymore to play bridge there in Alabama - imagine him and Bergen partnering....call it the "Bridge Pro Unretired Tour". ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhar Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Since this seems obvious but nobody pointed it out, I will. Which is better? Whichever is on your partner's profile! There's really little to choose between the two - the most important thing is that you don't have a misunderstanding. If you've played normal Blackwood for years and are just trying RKCB, then 0314 probably seems more natural to you (you'll hold 0 or 1 often and will make the same answer you always did.) If your partner is used to 1430, and you can handle it, by all means, play it his way. To avoid an accident, you might just put RKCB in your profile and if, at a new table, your partner's profile doesn't specify either 0314 or 1430 then you can quickly edit your profile so that it shows one of them! If you are a true beginner/intermediate, then there are IMHO much more important things to worry about than the technical advantages in playing 0314 or 1430. You've gained at least 95% of the advantage of the convention when you count the king of trumps as an ace, and as long as you and partner don't have a misunderstanding, you won't give any of that 95% back. By the way, another thing that needs to be mentioned in any discussion of RKCB: If you have three key cards and partner signs off, assume he didn't have any and pass. On the auction, 1D-1S-4S, partner might have a hand such as ♠QJ10954 ♥K2 ♦5 ♣KQ54 where all he needs from you is four key cards to make a slam, and three will not do. If you had held AKxx/Axx/Axxx/Ax, you have a grand, and it's easy for him to bid. However, when you hold AKxx/AQx/KQJx/xx, a fine 4S bid, don't assume that because you have three key cards rather than zero, you should move on. This isn't true with four key cards. If partner can't make a slam off only one key card, he has no business using Blackwood (of any kind.) So, if partner signs off after you showed 1 or 4, and you have 4, by all means, go ahead and bid a slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceptic Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 hi here is a good link for the basic Roman Key Card Blackwood hope this is helpful, I found the whole site good, I still do http://www.prairienet.org/bridge/rkc.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 1430 is better. my 2 ressons are: 1. partner will have one ace more often then 0 aces.2. There is more chance that you will want to look for additional inforation (q of trump or kings) when partner has one ace than when he got 0.For those two ressons you want to give priority to showing 1 ace with the lowest bid.You might think of playing 0314 when partner suppose to be very weak ex' after 2c-2d but i wouldnt put this on your memory , better focus on more importent things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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