hanp Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Here is a hand from the second weekend of the Dutch league: [hv=d=s&v=e&s=sk1098hk98dq1098c106]133|100|Scoring: IMPp - (1S) - 2H - (p)??[/hv] What would you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 3♥. That doesn't preclude 3NT - partner can bid 3♠ with something like xx AQJxxx Ax AJx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 3 ♥ I must miss something, because this seems quite obvious. ;) And yes, if partner asks me, I would prefer 3 NT too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I don't think partner is gonna ask as much as gnasher, but I see no alternative to 3♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 2NT. But if I'm serious I'll probably just bid 3♥ as everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I would pass. My spades look like doodoo with the bid on my left and partner short. If partner's hand is so good that we miss game, I ask him why he didn't start with a double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdanno Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 You sure have great spots in Holland. 3♥ for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 2♠ for me. The spots are very good and we are a passed hand. Second choice would probably be 3♥, it could be right to bid 2NT instead, but to me it always feels wrong to hide support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I hate hiding support so 3♥ for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggieb Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 2N, 3N is our most likely game. I don't think this is really close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Here is a hand from the second weekend of the Dutch league: [hv=d=s&v=e&s=sk1098hk98dq1098c106]133|100|Scoring: IMPp - (1S) - 2H - (p)??[/hv] What would you do?Pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I would pass. My spades look like doodoo with the bid on my left and partner short. If partner's hand is so good that we miss game, I ask him why he didn't start with a double. and he doesn't hold xx AQJxxx Ax AJx and make a crappy 2♥ bid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Tough one. I sort of like 2♠ since it's the heart raise that keeps 3NT most in the picture, and those are the two things I want to make sure I do, raise hearts and keep 3NT in the picture. I quite strongly disagree with downgrading for the spade holding, or at least downgrading more than just a hair. Partner can have the ace, or the queen, or the spots help, or you didn't need the king anyway, or it stops a tap, or the ace was onside anyway, or they lead the queen and partner had the jack... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Wow! I thought the choice was between pass (poorly placed SK :)) and 3H. I thought 3H was really normal and pass sucked, guess as evidenced by the cuebidders ;) I just don't think this hand is worth a cuebid. Partner will bid game over 3H if it's right. To me a cuebid is roughly a limit raise value, so this hand with 3 trumps and a poorly placed king and 8 points and... is just not a LR to me sry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Do they shuffle in Holland? This is a HanP special with the middle cards! Three 10's, three curses and three 8's. TTTKK, 99988, Q86 is my first thought, but TTTKK, 999Q6, 888 rates to sweep. 3♥ looks normal. At MPs, a slightly sick 2N is appealing. I don't see what 2♠ does, other than to overstate my hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyhung Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Here is a hand from the second weekend of the Dutch league: [hv=d=s&v=e&s=sk1098hk98dq1098c106]133|100|Scoring: IMPp - (1S) - 2H - (p)??[/hv] What would you do?Pass Pass?? Well, at least you are consistent with your answers. Playing opposite yourself, you can't raise if you could be overcalling with a flat, jack-high 11-count as you do in http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?showtopic=34772. But if your minimum to overcall is lower, your maximum must also be lower or you will miss game by passing this hand. That puts extra pressure on the sequence "double then bid hearts". I don't think it's wise to double and bid with a hand such as xx AJxxxx Kx AKx, but opposite your advancing style, you risk playing 2H when game is percentage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanp Posted October 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I went with TTTKK 999Q6 888. It turned out my 999Q6 lost but 99988 would have lost as well so this ended up being the best play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Wow! I thought the choice was between pass (poorly placed SK :() and 3H. I thought 3H was really normal and pass sucked, guess as evidenced by the cuebidders :P I just don't think this hand is worth a cuebid. Partner will bid game over 3H if it's right. To me a cuebid is roughly a limit raise value, so this hand with 3 trumps and a poorly placed king and 8 points and... is just not a LR to me sry. you shouldn't have to apologize for how you define raises. If available I would have made a constructive raise even with the spade call behind me but I don't have an available call so I have to pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I went with TTTKK 999Q6 888. It turned out my 999Q6 lost but 99988 would have lost as well so this ended up being the best play. You play chinese? ROFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyhung Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I thought the question was between 3H and 2NT -- passing seems way too conservative at IMPs unless partner has ridiculous standards for his 2H overcall. From experience, I know 2NT on 8 HCP doesn't work, but I admit my experience is biased in this case because I normally don't hold so many good intermediates. Out of curiosity, I ran a 1000-hand sim, giving LHO a 1S opening in my style, and partner a 2H overcall in my style (both defensively sound). In hearts, we average 9 tricks : we make game 37.9% of the time, 9 tricks 30% of the time, and 8 tricks 21.3% of the time. (Of course, down 1 is usually ok because that means it's likely they can make something). So passing seems needlessly pessimistic. In notrump, on the same dataset, we average 7.4 tricks : we make game (9+ tricks) 25.2% of the time, make 8 tricks 22.6% of the time, and make 7 tricks 23.3% of the time. My conclusion is that 2NT is not a good bid -- because it unilaterally directs us towards a strain that on average tends to play 1.6 tricks worse, shooting for a target that is 1 trick lower. This simulation says nothing about the raise vs. the cue-bid, though -- if partner can use his judgement to discern hands where notrump outperforms hearts, then the cuebid could be right. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to automate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I went with TTTKK 999Q6 888. It turned out my 999Q6 lost but 99988 would have lost as well so this ended up being the best play. You play chinese? ROFL. ? I thought this was a Pai Gow problem :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I went with TTTKK 999Q6 888. It turned out my 999Q6 lost but 99988 would have lost as well so this ended up being the best play. You play chinese? ROFL. ? I thought this was a Pai Gow problem :P Assumed it was Chinese: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_poker but have no idea how pai gow is played Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I really really hate bidding notrump. We belong in hearts very often too! "We belong in notrump a lot" and "we should bid notrump now" are very far from being equivalent statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I hate 2N but 3H precludes NT way more than 2N precludes hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I hate 2N but 3H precludes NT way more than 2N precludes hearts. That's why I bid 2♠. I know I'm overbidding, but it's a lot easier to get to notrump after 2♠ than 3♥. I refuse to not raise hearts though, I can easily be talked into 3♥ but nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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