tseager44 Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I had an argument with an opponent recently. I told them they (as dummy) could not tell their partner that they are in their hand or on the board for leading a card. I said all the dummy is allowed to legally say is asking partner if he has none of the suit led. they stated the dummy could tell the declarer (his partner) that he is on the board or in his hand. Am I wrong? Can the dummy tell his partner which hand is leading? thanks p.s. I think I may be eating humble pie? :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Dummy can indeed say that. He gained another right in 2007(?), now he can tell declarer (and I think either defender) that they misplaced a trick before the next trick has begun. The exact law I don't know, there are many more people who will tell you. Apart from these 3 rights (asking declarer if they have a suit and the two mentioned in this post) I am not aware of any others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoAnneM Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 LAW 42B2. Dummy may try to prevent any irregularity by declarer. So, he cannot tell declarer he is in the wrong hand until declarer has made some indication that he is going to lead from the wrong hand. Many think dummy can tell declarer at every trick where they are, but this is wrong. It is only if dummy can actually ascertain that declarer is going lead from the wrong hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Why are you telling your opponent what he can or can't do in the first place? If he does something you don't like then call the director and complain or don't call the director and live with it. Don't make yourself the (bossy untrained) director of the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Why are you telling your opponent what he can or can't do in the first place? If he does something you don't like then call the director and complain or don't call the director and live with it. Don't make yourself the (bossy untrained) director of the moment. BridgKop is right :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoAnneM Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I agree completely with pooltuna, and am sorry I missed that in the post. As a director, nothing worse than a bossy person at the table. As a matter of fact, why disrupt the game for something so petty. Why not talk to the director between rounds or after the game. Verify that you have the rule right yourself, and ask the director to talk to the player if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 arent the posters being a little hard on dummy in the case of "misplaced trick before next trick"? I assume this means a defender thinks he won the trick and has placed it vertically. Dummy, by saying something is depriving declarer of some options when a lead out of turn might have occurred. This knee-jerk by dummy might not be smart, but it is not boorish. And I don't know if it is illegal. "At the club", it might even be considered polite and helpful, even if it pisses declarer off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoAnneM Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Some of the "stars" in our area think it is cool to not even keep track of their tricks. I have no idea what their thinking behind this is. Do you think dummy should point it out every trick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Some of the "stars" in our area think it is cool to not even keep track of their tricks. I have no idea what their thinking behind this is. Do you think dummy should point it out every trick? bitter much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 LAW 42B2. Dummy may try to prevent any irregularity by declarer. So, he cannot tell declarer he is in the wrong hand until declarer has made some indication that he is going to lead from the wrong hand. Many think dummy can tell declarer at every trick where they are, but this is wrong. It is only if dummy can actually ascertain that declarer is going lead from the wrong hand. Where does that law say that he can only exercise it if it looks like an irregularity is about to occur? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoAnneM Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 That interpretation was given to me by a National Director. If declarer is just looking at the cards there is nothing to prevent, but if declarer starts to pull out a card dummy can say something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoAnneM Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Some of the "stars" in our area think it is cool to not even keep track of their tricks. I have no idea what their thinking behind this is. Do you think dummy should point it out every trick? bitter much? Did you think I was serious? There is not a hint of bitterness, I just like to observe people, and find some of them interesting. Declarer can tell an opponent that their trick is turned the wrong way, but dummy should really be quiet, except for specific rights accorded. For one thing, it can be distracting to the declarer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 You are right about that humble pie... Do not argue with your opponents or partner. If you think something that happened is not right or is illegal, call the TD or let it go without comment, whichever is best in a given situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMB1 Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Where does that law say that he can only exercise it if it looks like an irregularity is about to occur?Law 42 B 2 "He (dummy) may try to prevent any irregularity by declarer". This suggests there must be a potential irregularity for dummy to prevent. Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Declarer can tell an opponent that their trick is turned the wrong way, but dummy should really be quiet, except for specific rights accorded. For one thing, it can be distracting to the declarer. Well then I guess maybe dummy has to use his thinking and emotional intelligence and determine when he could be helpful and when he could be distracting and only talk when it would be helpful. Some non-world class declarers can be derailed because of a misplacement of a trick. Also some non-world class defenders will argue at the end of the hand that they took more tricks than they actually did if their mechanical error was not pointed out to them right after a trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Some of the "stars" in our area think it is cool to not even keep track of their tricks. I have no idea what their thinking behind this is. Do you think dummy should point it out every trick? bitter much? Did you think I was serious? There is not a hint of bitterness, I just like to observe people, and find some of them interesting. Declarer can tell an opponent that their trick is turned the wrong way, but dummy should really be quiet, except for specific rights accorded. For one thing, it can be distracting to the declarer. And you better off if he is thinking about the play rather than where the cards are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Where does that law say that he can only exercise it if it looks like an irregularity is about to occur?Law 42 B 2 "He (dummy) may try to prevent any irregularity by declarer". This suggests there must be a potential irregularity for dummy to prevent. Robin Playing from the wrong hand is a potential irregularity, and reminding declarer which hand he's in will hopefully prevent it. It doesn't say that he can only prevent an irregularity that's apparently about to happen. I lock my door to prevent someone from robbing my home. I don't wait until I see a potential burglar. I personally wouldn't remind partner about this when I don't see him about to make a mistake, but I don't typically play with partners who need this help on a regular basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Playing from the wrong hand is a potential irregularity, and reminding declarer which hand he's in will hopefully prevent it. It doesn't say that he can only prevent an irregularity that's apparently about to happen. OK, maybe reminding partner every couple of seconds which hand he is in does not break Law 42B2. But if that is the case, you can still be penalised under Law 74A2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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