mr1303 Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 On a normalish 2/1 auction to 3NT, how much would you need for a quantitive invite to 4NT? Hand I held as an example[hv=d=n&v=e&s=skjhxxxdaj8xcak9x]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Auction proceeded: 1S 2C3C 3D3NT The problem as I saw it was that neither of us have had a chance to limit our hands here. Hypothetically, partner could still have something like: AQxxxAQxxQJxx whereby slam is good, but obviously there are plenty of minimums whereby 3NT is the limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 Yes, that is one of the problems in a 2/1 auction especially when they are 16 opposite 16 or alike without a fit. However on this hand, I'm not particularly interested in inviting in NT because we have found a club fit. Partner doesn't even need that good of a hand (your example one) like AQxxx Ax xx Qxxx and if clubs and spades behave then 6♣ is good. On your auction I would bid 4♠ over 3NT most likely suggesting HH in spades and an invite to slam. That way partner can judge whether to play in 4♠ on a 5-2 fit, 5♣, or a slam. I don't want to bid 4♦ as a 'cue' because that may be construed as a 5-6 shape nor do I want to bid 4♥ as that would suggest 1345 or 0346 inviting slam. So out of 4♣, 4♠ and 4NT I think 4♠ is good. I don't think it is "placing the contract" since with 3 card support I would've bid 3♠ over 3♣. What would 3♦ over 2♣ by partner have been? If it's a splinter then partner's most likely shape is 5224 and 4♠ should be just as good or better contract than 4NT so I think if partner bids 4NT over 4♠ it's keycard. However, that's a violation to one of my meta agreements where if 3NT is bid to play then a follow up of 4NT is to play as well but in this case if opener has a min we can play in 4♠ or 5♣ giving up on 4NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 On your auction I would bid 4♠ over 3NT most likely suggesting HH in spades and an invite to slam. In some partnerhips your suggested sequence would show that you bid around heart shortness with a hand too strong to splinter (kjxx x kxx akxxx). You will end up in six spades on your actual hand, which might make, or 7 spades, which might not.Back up a bit and have opener splinter 3D/2C, then a club slam becomes relatively easy to bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 On your auction I would bid 4♠ over 3NT most likely suggesting HH in spades and an invite to slam. In some partnerhips your suggested sequence would show that you bid around heart shortness with a hand too strong to splinter (kjxx x kxx akxxx). You will end up in six spades on your actual hand, which might make, or 7 spades, which might not. If you read my 2nd paragraph, I mentioned the fact that if I had spade support I would have bid it immediately the round before. In whoever's partnership that thinks to bid 2♣, 3♦, THEN 4♠ with KJxx x Kxx AKxxx (4 card support!!!) I would consider insane. Even if you change the spades and diamonds I don't understand why on earth you would not show spade support. If that is your/someone else's 'systemic' way of showing your suggested 4135 or 3145 hands, then I don't understand the need to play 2/1 as opposed to SAYC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 On a normalish 2/1 auction to 3NT, how much would you need for a quantitive invite to 4NT? Hand I held as an example[hv=d=n&v=e&s=skjhxxxdaj8xcak9x]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Auction proceeded: 1S 2C3C 3D3NT The problem as I saw it was that neither of us have had a chance to limit our hands here. Hypothetically, partner could still have something like: AQxxxAQxxQJxx whereby slam is good, but obviously there are plenty of minimums whereby 3NT is the limit. the rules are straightforward. for a 6NT invite the total possible partnership assets must straddle 33HCP. So if a 15-17 1NT opener's partner holds 17 the total assets could be between 32 and 34, hence 4NT is the invite, with 15 the opener passes, with the other values he goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 So if a 15-17 1NT opener's partner holds 17 the total assets could be between 32 and 34, hence 4NT is the invite, with 15 the opener passes, with the other values he goesO rly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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