1NT Overcall Range requirement?

[A2003]

General convention chart Link

 

One pair was playing West coast style overcall system

1NT overcall is 3 suited takeout promises 3 cards in unbid suit.

This is mentioned in the General convention chart. competitive section 3.b

Dbl is power double.

 

Range was 1NT overcall is 7-15HCP (3 suited Takeout).

Power dbl is 16+ range

This method was questioned by their opponents.

 

TD disallowed the NT overcall range.

TD mentioned the 1NT overcall range cannot be this wide.

TD also mentioned that this should be within 5 pt range.

 

Is the TD statement correct?

 

Second Question?

Is there a similar requirement in the sandwitch seat.

1minor pass 1 major 1NT pass

 

What should be 1NT range here when playing for unbid suit take out.

Is there a similar range requirement?

 

 

======================================================

From website of westcoast style overcall system:

3. The One No-trump Overcall for Takeout (NTO)

 

The centerpiece of the system. The NTO comes up frequently and creates problems for the opponents, while letting us know the suits in which we can compete. The NTO can be described as a light three-suited takeout, showing 3+ cards in each of the unbid suits and generally 6 -15 HCP. The bid implies a doubleton or less in the opener's suit, i.e., it should not be used with 4-3-3-3 hands. The bid is alertable.

3.1 Point count requirements

 

The sources differ in their description of the point count requirements. Spaulding gives the range as 4 to a bad 14, or up to a bad 15 opposite a passed partner. Fout says 6-15 at equal vulnerability. At the table Twineham and Hodges, at unfavorable vulnerability, said their range was 8-14.

[Stephen Tu]

TD incorrect IMO.

GCC:

3. NOTRUMP OVERCALL for either

a) two-suit takeout showing at least 5–4 distribution and at least one

known suit (At the four level or higher there is no requirement to have

a known suit.) or

:lol: three-suit takeout (at least three cards in each of the three suits.)

 

no mention of strength requirements.

 

For a natural notrump overcall, you can restrict conventional responses to a < 10 hcp or wide range call, but you can't prohibit the call itself.

[Phil]

West Coast stylz w00t.

 

I play this. It's legal. I try to pre-announce although I don't have to. 7-15 is typical.

 

I have no idea about the conventional responses to a 1NTO, but the responses are usually natural anyway.

 

The Director is out of line.

[mtvesuvius]

The director is treating the 1NT overcall as "Natural" and therefore needs to go back to class.

[matmat]

The director is treating the 1NT overcall as "Natural" and therefore needs to go back to class.

go directly to class

do not pass go!, do not collect TD fee.

[mycroft]

If it's in a club, the club can have whatever rules they want.

 

If it's advertised as a GCC game, however, your fallback is to (politely!) ask the TD to pull the GCC and show you - after which you can point out the difference between natural and three-suited NT overcalls on the paper.

 

(I'm an EHAA player - I Know From This).

[kenrexford]

For a few years, I played something similar to this. We called it "RUNT," for "Really Unusual No Trump."

 

We also ran into this insane "range" limitation, which made no sense. So, we punished the director by inventing modified RUNT and "Son-of-RUNT."

 

The new 1NT range was 5-10 OR 19-23. We convinced them that the notrump range could be "five points" and that a "woodson two-way" meant that 1NT could have split ranges. This, of course, was nonsense, but I can play their game.

 

The result of the modified RUNT was to have "Son-of-RUNT." This meant that a double was defined as:

 

1. 0-4 and three-suited takeout, or

2. 11-18, three-suited takeout, or

3. 15+ balanced, or

4. big one-suiter, or

5. big two-suiter, or

6. 24+ three-suited takeout

 

Of course, they boxed themselves into this. I'd suggest that the West Coasters try unleashing this on the local TD's who make up rules and see just how quickly that nonsense rights itself.

 

BTW -- RUNT and Son-of-RUNT worked remarkably well. There was also another version of it, over a 1♣ opening, when a double could also show just clubs and overcall strength. A 2♣ overcall then showed clubs and a higher suit.