Gambling 3NT

[VixTD]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sj865hj8djcakj1053]133|100|Scoring: MP

3NT* (P) ?[/hv]

*Gambling 3NT, expect a running seven or eight card minor and no more than an outside queen. Responses: 4/5♣ are pass or correct, no more detailed discussion.

[Codo]

AS soon as the opponents gets just a little better then a beginner, they know how to defend against a gambling 3 NT: Lay down an ace or at least a king and take it from there...

 

So, they will catch at least 6 tricks in the majors before you can start to take your minor tricks.

 

So 4 Club is clear cut.

[helene_t]

Maybe against inexperienced opps, pass could create more confusion than 4♣ and may be more likely to make opps misjudge.

 

Against good opps it's better to bid 4♣ before they double 3NT. Running soon gives them less options than running late.

[mtvesuvius]

4♣ now. The defense has at least 6 major suit tricks if they know how to find them, there isn't much reason to wait until 3NT is doubled to pull, it can only help the opponents.

[Phil]

This is a very interesting problem to be honest. A few comments.

 

1. 5♦ rates to be a good save if partner has 2-3 clubs, but I'm not sure I can discover this. Its more likely he has 0-1 looking at my hand. On the other hand, I don't mind defending 4 of a major if pard does have 0-1 clubs. We should be able to take 2 clubs, one diamond (maybe 2) and have a good shot at a trump promotion for the 4th.

 

2. What is harder to defend against? A 3N opening or a 4♣ pass or correct call? It should not matter against good opponents, but I have seen average club players have a tough time over 3N. Be careful what you wish for however. At some other tables, pard's hand might be opened with 3♦ and the opponents will not find their 20 point game, so even if it goes 3N swish, we rate to give up at least 200 in 3N (especially since my hand is on the table). So I would bid 4♣.

[pooltuna]

AS soon as the opponents gets just a little better then a beginner, they know how to defend against a gambling 3 NT: Lay down an ace or at least a king and take it from there...

 

So, they will catch at least 6 tricks in the majors before you can start to take your minor tricks.

 

So 4 Club is clear cut.

yep! can't say it any better than this. Running is clear however does bidding 4♦ suggest a ♣ lead is viable?

[olliebol]

well bidding 4♦ risks that partner starts thinking. If he will think what i want him to think all is well but i am not sure about that. maybe he red somewhere that i am asking for a singleton major brrrrr and btw i dont mind a diamond lead.

[kgr]

4♦, pass correct

[jdonn]

The normal expert agreement (to the extent experts play gambling 3NT) is that 4♦ asks for shortness instead of being p/c. So 4♣ here.

[mtvesuvius]

The normal expert agreement (to the extent experts play gambling 3NT) is that 4♦ asks for shortness instead of being p/c. So 4♣ here.

To add to that, there isn't any benefit to bidding 4♦ instead of 4♣ here. Partner will correct 4♣ to 4♦ always, and you know partner's suit isn't clubs. The only possible reason to use 4♦ as p/c is to protect a tenace, but with a hand like this, not only is there no reason to want to protect your holdings, but often it is better to have partner declaring on hands like this, so the opponents at least have to guess partner's major lengths. The better use of 4♦ is to ask for Shortness as Josh said, which can be crucial on slam-going hands.

[nigel_k]

I agree with jdonn though I prefer 4♦ as pass or correct. In addition to protecting tenaces, it makes the unknown hand declarer, denies LHO a second chance to call and can be used if you happen to have a hand that wants to play either 4♦ or 5♣.

 

On the actual hand, you wouldn't expect to make and the likelihood of them making 4♥ is not great enough that you feel happy passing and conceding a number of 50s. Though 4♦ probably won't make either. If it was IMPs I would pass nonvul and might consider passing all vul as well.

[the hog]

Agree with Nigel - not having 4D ask for shortness, I would bid 4D here, else 4C p/c.

[P_Marlowe]

4C - since, we should have a reasonable chance to make

4D, and even if 4D goes down, it will go down less than 3NT.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[VixTD]

I remonstrated with my partner for passing, but the club expert (against whom we were playing) stuck up for her, saying that pass was the obvious call.

 

I thought the normal thing to do was to pass only if 3NT has a good chance of making, otherwise bid 4♣ (unless making a try for another game or a slam). It looks very likely to me that five or more major suit tricks will be cashed before we get a look in.

 

I'm glad to see that the poll backs me up.

[Gerben42]

I tried passing with such hands, only to find that we had 4 cashing tricks against 4M.

[Cyberyeti]

4♣ WTP

 

of course partner will have Qx, Qxx, AKQ10xxx, x once in a blue moon and I'll look silly.

 

4♦ is definitely a shortage ask in my book.