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Are forcing passes on after 2/1?


zheddh

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And to clarify, 2 shows at least 6 now even if it would have only promised 5 without interference, since you are free to pass with just 5.

 

Also I would recommend to treat 3 as a 'high level reverse' or whatever you call it, meaning give it the same strength and suit quality requirements as the clubs in an auction like this one.

1 - 2 -

3

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double is penalty, other bids are natural, 3H shows short hearts and 4+ clubs.

 

We all know that cuebid by Responder shows support for Opener's suit ( limit raise or better ).

 

But I don't think it works the other-way-around for Opener's cuebid.

3H! is a general force, to be clarified later. It is asking for more info with the first priority as asking for a Ht-stop.

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double is penalty, other bids are natural, 3H shows short hearts and 4+ clubs.

 

We all know that cuebid by Responder shows support for Opener's suit ( limit raise or better ).

 

But I don't think it works the other-way-around for Opener's cuebid.

3H! is a general force, to be clarified later. It is asking for more info with the first priority as asking for a Ht-stop.

no not really

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double is penalty, other bids are natural, 3H shows short hearts and 4+ clubs.

 

We all know that cuebid by Responder shows support for Opener's suit ( limit raise or better ).

 

But I don't think it works the other-way-around for Opener's cuebid.

3H! is a general force, to be clarified later. It is asking for more info with the first priority as asking for a Ht-stop.

You are ignoring that the auction is game forcing and pass is forcing. If opener is balanced, he should always pass (and responder will bid 2N with a stopper unless he has s.th. more important to say). If opener has support but no shortness, he bids 3. If he has a long spades, he rebids spades. You never need to bid 3 unless you have a distributional hand, and it is clearly more useful to make 3 a well-defined bid with a distributional hand in case advancer makes a preemptive heart raise.

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Is 2C 2/1 GF or 1 Rnd force ?

... or does it matter ?

It does matter (in general) whether the 2/1 was GF.

 

In 2/1 GF, anything below game, including pass, is forcing, with the exception of a penalty double.

But pairs that play a 2/1 as a one round force, usually have the agreement that after a 2/1, the auction is forcing through a certain level. Examples of common agreements are: forcing through 2NT, forcing until suit agreement or game forcing unless responder rebids his suit.

 

I don't know anyone who plays American style 2/1 's (GF (2/1 GF) or INV+ (SAYC)) and has the agreement that a pass below 2 of opener's suit (as in this case) is non forcing. As long as you play something that looks like SAYC or 2/1 (and this is the SAYC and 2/1 forum), this pass is forcing. So, in this case, it doesn't matter whether the 2/1 was GF or just a one round force.

 

Rik

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double is penalty, other bids are natural, 3H shows short hearts and 4+ clubs.

 

We all know that cuebid by Responder shows support for Opener's suit ( limit raise or better ).

 

But I don't think it works the other-way-around for Opener's cuebid.

3H! is a general force, to be clarified later. It is asking for more info with the first priority as asking for a Ht-stop.

no not really

I yield.

Although some "outside" non-experts like myself held the opinion that 3H! was a stop-ask, the expert opinion was that 3H! was better served as a splinter for Responder's Cl.

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I like X as pen, teach them for messing about with our hand.

 

Pass is 100% forcing with nothing more to say at the moment

 

As finding out if we have a NT game is very high in the list of things to do I think 3 should be asking for a half stop as if I am balanced without any control in hearts I would pass and let P make the next move.

 

3/ should show 5/4 hands, again with 3 card support I think its more important to search for the 3NT first.

 

2 shows 6+ spades.

 

Not too sure what 3 should show guess some sort of long near solid spade suit with outside Aces

 

4 RCKB in clubs

 

2NT is natural, but not too sure what 3NT should show. Playing safe I think its just to play but then you are already forcing to game so 2NT says I want to play in NT's so without any special agreement 2NT must show some extras.

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3H! shows short hearts and 4+ clubs.

Another expert agreed that Opener's 3H! was a splinter and not a stop-ask, BUT said it could be a splinter for either:

    a)  partner's Cl ... or

    b ) a self-splinter for his Sp.

 

Another, a national champion, said:

 

3H! doesn't ask for a stopper-- a (forcing) Pass does that....

...and:

c) 3H! does not ( necessarily ) show shortness.

He said he would bid 3H! on:

 

A K x x x x

A x

x x

K J x

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3H! shows short hearts and 4+ clubs.

Another expert agreed that Opener's 3H! was a splinter and not a stop-ask, BUT said it could be a splinter for either:

    a)  partner's Cl ... or

    b ) a self-splinter for his Sp.

 

Another, a national champion, said:

 

3H! doesn't ask for a stopper-- a (forcing) Pass does that....

...and:

c) 3H! does not ( necessarily ) show shortness.

He said he would bid 3H! on:

 

A K x x x x

A x

x x

K J x

And how is that better than 2?

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