el mister Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Does your NT opening range change in 3rd or 4th seat relative to 1st and 2nd? I play Acol weak NT - should I be upgrading or downgrading 12-14 balanced in third seat for example? Or not changing at all? Say you had 9 points balanced, is there value in pre-empting a 1NT here?OTOH, say you had 15pts and 4-4-3-2 or 4-3-3-3, maybe 1NT is a good bid 3rd or 4th seat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I play 10-12 1NT in 1st and 2nd seats nonvul (as part of a light opening system with 10 HCP openings in 1st and 2nd seats nonvul) and 15-17 1NT in 3rd and 4th seats nonvul and all seats vul. I have strongly suggested to my partner that we change the range of our 3rd and 4th seat opening 1NT nonvul to 16-18, given that partner has already denied 10 HCPs by passing. But he has resisted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 12-14 in first and second and 15-17 in third and fourth is pretty good. You get doubled for penalties more when opening 1NT weak in third, and you also lose the benefit of the 1NT-3NT sequence which forces opponents to lead blind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I concur with Nigel. Weak 1NT first and second. Strong 1NT third and fourth is a good combination. Particularly vulnerable a weak 1NT in third and fourth has little to gain - we are unlikely to have a game - and much to lose - possible penalties or just 100s out undoubled. One of the weaknesses of a weak 1NT is playing the wrong part-score - 1NT when 2Major (or even 2minor) would have been better. After partner has passed we are most often going to end in a part-score when we have a weak balanced hand therefore opening a suit so that we can more easily find a fit makes more sense. Not vulnerable we play a mini-1NT (10-13). We almost play ArtK78's suggestion of strengthening the third and fourth seat strong no trump. Actually we just give ourselves the option of opening a suit with 15 HCP so our 1NT range is more like (15)16-17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I also play weak 1st & 2nd, strong 3rd and 4th - works fine. The one issue with it is if you (or partner) plays with other people who have fixed ranges a lot, you're apt to forget in the heat of battle. But this is not an issue for a regular partnership (well not after the first mishap or two anyway!). Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Hmm, I like to vary by seat and position and I've enjoyed going the other way and really weakening the 3rd seat nt. Essentially I'd like to open it with all hands between 10 and can't have game opposite a pass. For a while I was playing 12-15 in 1st, 2nd, and 4th and 10-13 in 3rd. Now I'm playing 12-14 in 4th seat, always. 10-12 in 3rd seat, always (maybe 10+ to 13- in practice for my partner). In 1st and 2nd seat if white, 10-12, but if red, 12-14. I agree that you want the 4th seat opening to be strong(er). But in 3rd seat, just like your weak 2 bids and preempts might be shaded and/or a little more undisciplined or wide ranging, I think the same thing applies to your 1nt. The third seat unfavorable 10-12 is definitely scary, and I think we'll probably have to change it eventually against a certain class of players, but I haven't found them yet as even in MP the good boards to bad boards are about 4:1 in practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 First of all, if you have agreed to play 12-14 throughout you should obviously stick to that agreement :unsure: Playing the same range throughout is simpler. The notrump range influences a lot of bidding decisions after an opening of one of a suit. For example, if p opens in a suit and RHO overcalls, the criteria for making a negative double are slightly different when catering to a weak NT than to a strong NT. Also, you are OK with responding 1NT to a suit opening with 10 points if partner would pass 1NT with 12-14, but not if he would pass with 15-16. That said, I think a weak notrump in 3rd/4th is inefficient, especially when vulnerable. You don't really want p to invite with 2NT if you have 12 and he can't have more than 11. Also, the frequency of 15-17 hands is relatively high when two (or three) players have passed before you. If you are used to playing weak NT, I would change to 14-16 throughout for a while, to get used to the different way of bidding after a suit opening when the suit opening can contain a 12-13 balanced but not a 14-16. There are a lot of things that become different. Make sure you get a good understanding with p playing the new system. If you after having got used to the new system you still think you would rather play 12-14 in 1st/2nd, you can change to that later. Changing to a variable notrump immediately will probably be too confusing, though. The reason why I recommend 14-16 rather than 15-17 or 16-18 is that when p can have max. 11, 14 is the weakest you want to bid constructively with. With a balanced 13 you are ok passing a new suit from p if you don't have an 8-card fit; with 14 you are not. Also, auctions like 1♦-2♣-3NT are unambiguous. If you play 15-17, you have three notrump ranges (12-13, 14, and 18-19) to show after responder promised 10+ points. The same is true for inverted minors. 15-17 certainly has merits, too, but I think 14-16 is easier it you are used to playing Acol. Btw we had the same discussion not so long ago: click here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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