Really?

[OleBerg]

[hv=d=e&v=b&s=saq3hk1084dk8643c5]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

(1♣) -  1♦  -  (Pass) - Pass

( X ) - Pass - (Pass) - 1♥

( X ) -  ???

 

First double was take-out (might be flawed). Second double was penalty.

 

Feel free to comment on IMP's too.

[Echognome]

Why did I overcall 1♦ on this meager suit rather than double 1♣ for takeout and be done with my hand?

[kenrexford]

Why did I overcall 1♦ on this meager suit rather than double 1♣ for takeout and be done with my hand?

Yeah, I don't get the 1♦ overcall either.

 

Having done so, and having partner pull to 1♥, what am I supposed to do except happily pass? Try to sweat for LHO's benefit?

[kfay]

I'd just pass.

 

Redouble to me seems like it's SOS anyway, maybe 3154 or 4054.

 

Even if I could redouble for business, why would I? They're not likely to sit for that. The only reason why I would want to would be for when LHO pulls this double to help partner if he wants to compete to 2♥, but I don't really want to play 2♥X.

[jjbrr]

I raise ♥

 

Edit: I'll explain. Partner should have 5♥, or he has 6♣ and 4♥ and chose to bid ♥. Otherwise, he's pulling with more than one ♦, which I would not be a fan of, or he should have redoubled. I'll trust my partner not to make such a unilateral decision when he could have made a moving target by redoubling. If he has 5♥, LHO isn't passing 1♥x. He knows we have a fit. My honors are well-placed, so I don't think we'll go for a number with 9 trumps at the two level.

[nigel_k]

I would definitely raise. It's unlikely they will pass out 1♥ doubled and even then we may be better in 2♥ doubled. :(

 

If LHO bids 3NT next I want to make sure partner leads a heart. If not, even the mild preemption of 2♥ may make it hard for them to work out whether they belong in NT, clubs, spades or diamonds.

[Jlall]

lol 1D????????????????

 

Sorry had to get that out... anyways I'd bid 2H now.

[pooltuna]

[hv=d=e&v=b&s=saq3hk1084dk8643c5]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

(1♣) -  1♦  -  (Pass) - Pass

( X ) - Pass - (Pass) - 1♥

( X ) -  ???

 

First double was take-out (might be flawed). Second double was penalty.

 

Feel free to comment on IMP's too.

bid 2♥ if you are going to be doubled you might as well be in game :lol:

[Phil]

1♦???!!!

 

I pass. Maybe RHO is doubling 1♥ on power instead of great trump. Maybe LHO doesn't see a better spot than 1♥ x'd, especially at MPs and wants to try for 200. This could easily be a rhythm double on righty's part.

 

Anyway, I can always compete to 2♥ later. I don't think an immediate 2♥ accomplishes much, other than to tell LHO that his heart shortness is working better than he thinks it is.

[jjbrr]

I don't think an immediate 2♥ accomplishes much, other than to tell LHO that his heart shortness is working better than he thinks it is.

Takes away a whole level of bidding from LHO, who already knows we have a heart fit. Seems pretty substantial to me. 1N, 2♣ and 2♦ were all very likely actions by him. Pass of the double at the one level was never an option. I expect him to pass very frequently after 2♥, which isn't very descriptive to his partner. Now they have a lot of guessing to do. If he isn't passing, we haven't lost anything at all. They just have less room to work with.

[mtvesuvius]

2♥. Not only does it take away bidding room from the opponents, but I like 470 more than 260 :lol:

[andy_h]

I raise to 2♥ as we rate to be in a 5-4 fit.

[655321]

From the 1♦ overcall instead of double, I deduce that partner is not allowed to play any hands.

 

Therefore, to be consistent with this philosophy I will bid 1♠ now. This actually has an extra benefit - if somebody does double 1♠, when I finally give in and run to 2♥ maybe it will be doubled on momentum, and on a good day my not-allowed-to-touch-dummy partner might even make it.

[mike777]

[hv=d=e&v=b&s=saq3hk1084dk8643c5]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

(1♣) -  1♦  -  (Pass) - Pass

( X ) - Pass - (Pass) - 1♥

( X ) -  ???

 

First double was take-out (might be flawed). Second double was penalty.

 

Feel free to comment on IMP's too.

what was 1d......??

 

 

 

 

x first timethen quite

[rhm]

The 1D overcall was strange but is hardly a good reason to commit suicide now, which

bidding anything but Pass is.

LHO should have 4 cards in ♥ for his second double and your partner ran only after opponents wanted to play 1♦ doubled.

It is anything but clear that partner holds all the remaining ♥.

Partner could hold 3=4=0=6 or even 4=4=0=5 (Pray that he does not bid 1S now).

Thank partner for having the courage to bid 1♥, ♦ is probably opponents best suit.

If partner has 3-4 HCP, 3NT may not make and one down doubled will be a very good score but for the opponents. If partner is closer to a yarborough you may well go down more than you think after the indicated trump lead.

Those who believe there are 8 tricks in ♥ are dreaming

Raising ♥ is asking for trouble and accomplishes nothing.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[mcphee]

My dear old partner passed 1D and failed to take an SOS action I expect them to have 5H and a pail of trash and zero D. At this point I am willing to raise H. I will re read my notes on take out dble versus the overcall 5 more times to make sure I can see the difference.

[billw55]

I pass. Thanks to my brilliant (?) 1♦ call, ops don't necessarily know that we have a heart fit. From their point of view, we could be flailing desperately to avoid a number - so there is some chance of playing 1♥x for a cold top. Not a huge chance, but worth a try IMO. And if they work it out right and bid on, I can too, if it seems wise.

 

edit: actually thinking about it, the chance to play 1♥x isn't bad at all. Righty balanced with a double, then hit 1♥ directly. Put yourself in lefty's seat; what does this auction sound like?

[jjbrr]

Can't believe the people who think you'll play 1♥x. If I put myself in lefty's seat, I have 0-1♥, a long ♦ suit that no longer is producing many (any?) winners, and we may just be cold for game when we're fighting to nip 1♥ a trick. Do you not realize partner didn't open 1♥, and when I have 0-1♥ that means the opponents have a fit? And, as Phil I believe pointed out, Opener might be doubling 1♥ with 3 good ♥ and a great hand or something. Are you really saying you think the opponents will defend a distributional hand at the one level when the opponents have a known fit, particularly when it's a huge favorite to be a 9-card fit? lol.

 

And 1♥ bidder can't be 3406 or 4405. He would XX 100% of the time with both shapes.

 

And why can't we make 2♥? lol. Partner doesn't always have 0 points and the missing honors don't always sit perfectly for the opponents. If we got to play 2♥x, I would expect to make a fairly substantial amount of the time. And even if we go down one or two, doesnt that mean they probably have a game?

 

Finally, "trust the vulnerable opponents" is good advice. Who raises ♥ vulnerable after a penalty double without a distributional hand and good trumps? I bet they won't even defend 2♥ a vast majority of the time.

[rhm]

Can't believe the people who think you'll play 1♥x. If I put myself in lefty's seat, I have 0-1♥, a long ♦ suit that no longer is producing many (any?) winners, and we may just be cold for game when we're fighting to nip 1♥ a trick. Do you not realize partner didn't open 1♥, and when I have 0-1♥ that means the opponents have a fit? And, as Phil I believe pointed out, Opener might be doubling 1♥ with 3 good ♥ and a great hand or something. Are you really saying you think the opponents will defend a distributional hand at the one level when the opponents have a known fit, particularly when it's a huge favorite to be a 9-card fit? lol.

 

And 1♥ bidder can't be 3406 or 4405. He would XX 100% of the time with both shapes.

 

And why can't we make 2♥? lol. Partner doesn't always have 0 points and the missing honors don't always sit perfectly for the opponents. If we got to play 2♥x, I would expect to make a fairly substantial amount of the time. And even if we go down one or two, doesnt that mean they probably have a game?

 

Finally, "trust the vulnerable opponents" is good advice. Who raises ♥ vulnerable after a penalty double without a distributional hand and good trumps? I bet they won't even defend 2♥ a vast majority of the time.

I am not so sure that SOS RDBL with a void and no HCP is such a clever thing to do.

To me this looks scary.

What is overcaller supposed to do with 6 mediocre diamonds and no major over an SOS RDBL?

An SOS RDBL of an overcall should contain the option that partner can pass.

If you are void in diamonds you should at least have some tricks in HCP if overcaller decides to pass with a chance to scramble home.

The trouble with a ♥ raise is that it is your RHO who will have the option to double a third time.

If he holds Axxx he will decline.

If he holds AQJx he will double athird time.

Now after queen of ♥ lead I wish you good luck in 2♥ doubled

Even if your partner has 5 ♥ I see 3 tricks in ♥ and the ♠ ace.

800-1100 on the horizon, maybe 500-800 if 3NT does not make

 

Rainer Herrmann

[billw55]

I bet they won't even defend 2♥ a vast majority of the time.

That's kind of my point. If anything, they are more likely to bid over us after a 2♥ call than after a pass - since that would absolutely confirm the fit. They should know we have a fit anyway? Maybe, but opponents are not infallible. Why help them? Basically, I think we have a better chance of playing 1♥x than 2♥x.

 

Furthermore, I can't imagine our side bidding higher than the 2 level - which ops will certainly outbid. So what can I gain by bidding 2♥?

[aguahombre]

What I can't believe is that JJBRR explained his 2H raise in his first post very nicely --which was agreed with by several top-notch posters afterward--- and then had to defend it again. 2H, and his logic for the bid, were clear. A pass of the double was my first knee-jerk, but jjbrr woke me up to the raise.

[cherdanno]

The 1D overcall was strange but is hardly a good reason to commit suicide now, which

bidding anything but Pass is.

LHO should have 4 cards in ♥ for his second double and your partner ran only after opponents wanted to play 1♦ doubled.

It is anything but clear that partner holds all the remaining ♥.

Partner could hold 3=4=0=6 or even 4=4=0=5 (Pray that he does not bid 1S now).

I strongly disagree that LHO is promising four hearts for his second double. His first double didn't show more than a minimum balanced hand with two diamonds. There are many hands with 3 hearts and extras (balanced or unbalanced) that have to double a second time now.

Also, I strongly disagree with your point that partner will bid 1♥ with 4405. Hands where you have to escape into the right major fit are much much more frequent than hands where it will be best to pass out 1♦XX (you are looking specifically for a 6-1 fit for that?).

[billw55]

I assume you mean RHO?

 

Anyway, holding 4 hearts for the double is maybe not 100%, but I certainly expect it a strong majority of the time.

 

Also the OP did say "second double was penalty" which I assume means asked and answered. If in any doubt, lefty might prefer to let it be partner's fault in the post-mortem :)

[rbforster]

An SOS RDBL of an overcall should contain the option that partner can pass.

I don't think that's an "SOS" redouble anymore. Besides, 1♦XX isn't even game :).

[jjbrr]

Furthermore, I can't imagine our side bidding higher than the 2 level - which ops will certainly outbid. So what can I gain by bidding 2♥?

Think of the wide range of hands LHO has for his pass of 1♦x. Does he have AQJTx of ♦ and nothing else? Does he have that with 2 other aces? What length does he have in the majors? Does he have a ♣ fit?

 

The point of 2♥ is you take a WHOLE LEVEL OF BIDDING away from him. Whereas over 1♥x he was going to bid something 100% of the time, which I don't think some of you are understanding, if we bid 2♥ he is likely going to have to pass again, which does nothing to clarify his hand. Or, he just bids naturally and we haven't lost anything at all except they have less room to work with. How is this not a huge victory? Opener, who has anything from a minimum with short ♦ and 3-4♥ to a great 21 with short ♦ and 3-4♥ now has to guess what to do. Double again with a minimum? Bid NT? How many NT?

 

If you can't see what bidding 2♥ gains, I don't know what else to tell you except that good players have posted in this thread that they'd bid 2♥ and you should consider doing it yourself.