Phil Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 IMPs, all vul [hv=d=n&v=n&n=sak9xhdakj983ct63&s=sjt852h7632dt5caj]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv] 1D - (1H) - 1S - (3H);4H - (5H) - 5S - AP Lead is the ♥5. PTP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 I have been thinking about ducking the first diamond but it seems to fail misserably. Switching to ruff, ♠A, ♦AK, if LHO has ♦Qxxx I think I will go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 I have been thinking about ducking the first diamond but it seems to fail misserably. Switching to ruff, ♠A, ♦AK, if LHO has ♦Qxxx I think I will go down. This line seems clear, maybe I'm missing something clever. Where did my 5S bid come from lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 This line seems clear, maybe I'm missing something clever. Nothing clever needed, but if you thought about it some more, you might determine that you are getting some nasty splits when your opponents bid up to 5♥ on nine trump. By the way, I took the 'clear' line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bid_em_up Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Assuming I ruff and cash the spade Ace, do both opponents follow? (And I am thinking about whether or not I am ruffing trick 1 with the spade K, to possibly retain an extra entry to my hand, but haven't decided yet) At first glance, it looks like the only losers should be the spade Q and the diamond Q as long as trumps are at least 3-1. It's just a matter of figuring out what order to establish this in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Assuming I ruff and cash the spade Ace, do both opponents follow? (And I am thinking about whether or not I am ruffing trick 1 with the spade K, to possibly retain an extra entry to my hand, but haven't decided yet) At first glance, it looks like the only losers should be the spade Q and the diamond Q as long as trumps are at least 3-1. It's just a matter of figuring out what order to establish this in. If you cash the ♠A, both follow with spots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 This line seems clear, maybe I'm missing something clever. I've spent ages trying to think of something clever, and have mostly only come up with something stupid, except possibly this: Ruff, cash the top spades. If trumps are 2-2, concede a diamond; if they're 3-1 either way, cross to ♣A and take a diamond finesse. If we assume that RHO has a singleton somewhere, that gains against: 2443 - 2515 1444 - 3514 with ♦Q on the left Fluffy's line gains against: 3433 - 1525 with ♦Q on the right 3424 - 1534 with ♦Q on the right 1444 - 3514 with ♦Q on the right Neither line works against 3415 - 1543. Does that sound right? And which line is better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) My analysis was wrong. Edited September 15, 2009 by Cyberyeti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 This line seems clear, maybe I'm missing something clever. I've spent ages trying to think of something clever, and have mostly only come up with something stupid, except possibly this: Ruff, cash the top spades. If trumps are 2-2, concede a diamond; if they're 3-1 either way, cross to ♣A and take a diamond finesse. If we assume that RHO has a singleton somewhere, that gains against: 2443 - 2515 1444 - 3514 with ♦Q on the left Fluffy's line gains against: 3433 - 1525 with ♦Q on the right 3424 - 1534 with ♦Q on the right 1444 - 3514 with ♦Q on the right Neither line works against 3415 - 1543. Does that sound right? And which line is better? Yeah that line looks quite reasonable, seems like the Fluffy line is still better. If we are going to try to guess which shapes are more liekly, I think 3514 with Qxx spades is less likely than 1534 with Qxx of diamonds since the former has better defense. Sometimes LHO won't bid 3H with 3433, but at white/red I think they almost always would. With 1444 they might sometimes bid 4H at w/r (depends on opp, I think I do this more than most people?) So my inferences would indicate the lines fluffy wins on are more likely on average, plus there are more of them (though obviously the stiff Q of diamonds combo is heavily discounted). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wclass___ Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 I think that ♠ ruff; ♦A; ♦K would lose only if ♦ are 5-0. But maybe i should ruff with high ♠ and lead small ♠ to hand in order to finesse ♦?You would need something like ♠Qxx ♥xxxxx♣xxxxx with East Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 I think that ♠ ruff; ♦A; ♦K would lose only if ♦ are 5-0.If East has ♠Q, I don't think you can cope with both 2515 and 3514. He ruffs the second diamond and plays a heart. If you play another diamond and he's 2515, he ruffs with ♠Q and plays a third heart. If, instead, you draw a second trump, you lose when East is 3514. But maybe i should ruff with high ♠ and lead small ♠ to hand in order to finesse ♦?You would need something like ♠Qxx ♥xxxxx♣xxxxx with EastThat loses when ♠Q is singleton and ♦Q is offside. Given the bidding, that's quite a likely spade layout.When does it gain over my line? (Ruff low; cash the top spades. If trumps are 2-2, concede a diamond; if they're 3-1 either way, cross to ♣A and take a diamond finesse.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wclass___ Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 He ruffs the second diamond and plays a heart. If you play another diamond and he's 2515, he ruffs with ♠Q and plays a third heart. Discard ♣ and claim!? That loses when ♠Q is singleton and ♦Q is offside. Given the bidding, that's quite a likely spade layout.huh? 5♥ bid with 5♥; ♦Q; ♠Q/xxx ?! 2nd line was intended specifically versus ♠Qxx;♥xxxxx;♦xxxxx as i doun't see other way how to make then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 He ruffs the second diamond and plays a heart. If you play another diamond and he's 2515, he ruffs with ♠Q and plays a third heart. Discard ♣ and claim!?It's gone: Heart lead, ruffed ♦A ♦K, ruffed Second heart, ruffed Diamond, ruffed with ♠Q, as third heart is pitched Another heart, to which South has to follow suit. After ruffing this heart, dummy has a bare ♠A, LHO has ♠xx and ♦Q, and declarer still has a club loser. That loses when ♠Q is singleton and ♦Q is offside. Given the bidding, that's quite a likely spade layout.huh? 5♥ bid with 5♥; ♦Q; ♠Q/xxx ?!I meant that for RHO to bid 5♥ with only five of them (which we know he did), he's more likely to have ♠xxx than ♠Qxx. 2nd line was intended specifically versus ♠Qxx;♥xxxxx;♦xxxxx as i doun't see other way how to make then...OK, that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wclass___ Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Diamond, ruffed with ♠Q, as third heart is pitched Does it make more sence if i say.. 'Pitch ♣ and claim!?' ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 I see. You plan to pitch a club on the trick where it's legal to do so, rather on the one where it's not? That seems to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 I think that ♠ ruff; ♦A; ♦K would lose only if ♦ are 5-0.If East has ♠Q, I don't think you can cope with both 2515 and 3514. He ruffs the second diamond and plays a heart. If you play another diamond and he's 2515, he ruffs with ♠Q and plays a third heart. If, instead, you draw a second trump, you lose when East is 3514. If he is 2515 and ruffs with ♠Q He is ruffing 4 hearts in dummy making 9 trumps and 2 aces as his 11 tricks I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 I don't think you can cope with both 2515 and 3514. He ruffs the second diamond and plays a heart. If you play another diamond and he's 2515, he ruffs with ♠Q and plays a third heart. If, instead, you draw a second trump, you lose when East is 3514. I've held off on this intentionally. I think its very likely RHO has shortness somewhere. I played as suggested here (♠A and ♦AK) and went down when RHO was in fact 3=5=1=4. Lose 12? Lose 5? No, win 3 when the other declarer in the same contract went off 2 lol. A winning play at the table is simply to draw trump and finesse the diamond. Curiously Fluffy's suggestion of ruffing with a high spade actually leads to an overtrick since you can establish a trump entry to hand without releasing the club A. So I simply don't know if there is a sure tricks line when RHO has a singleton diamond or singleton spade <_< Please feel free to pass this around the net. I'd like to get some more opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 So I simply don't know if there is a sure tricks line when RHO has a singleton diamond or singleton spade <_<Didn't you read this post: I think that ♠ ruff; ♦A; ♦K would lose only if ♦ are 5-0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Dealer: North Vul: GA Scoring: IMP ♠ AK9x ♥ [space] ♦ AKJ983 ♣ T63 ♠ JT852 ♥ 7632 ♦ T5 ♣ AJ 1D - (1H) - 1S - (3H);4H - (5H) - 5S - APLead is the ♥5. PTP. I like Fluffy's line but like wclass, I slightly prefer to tackle ♦ without first drawing a round of ♠. I think this loses when an opponent has two singletons but caters for 4-1 ♦ splits when ♠Q is singleton or doubleton: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Sorry. I misread the problem :( I thought we were in the spade slam :(But I still prefer wclass's line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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