dropping 1/1

[jillybean]

[hv=d=n&v=b&s=saxxhxxdaqxckt982]133|100|Scoring: MP

P (P) 1♣ (P)

1♠ (P) P[/hv]

 

This auction was posted as part of another thread (laws and rulings), one of the comments was

How much I hate dropping 1/1 cannot be described in words

Please elaborate.

[Cascade]

In general I don't mind passing a 1/1 when partner is a passed hand.

 

Here however we hardly have an opening hand that we are ashamed of and if partner has a nice 11 game is possible.

[jillybean]

In general I don't mind passing a 1/1 when partner is a passed hand.

 

Here however we hardly have an opening hand that we are ashamed of and if partner has a nice 11 game is possible.

What do you bid? Keep in mind this is a new partner and we havent discussed raising on 3 :)

 

If partner has a decent 11 he should have opened.

[Cascade]

In general I don't mind passing a 1/1 when partner is a passed hand.

 

Here however we hardly have an opening hand that we are ashamed of and if partner has a nice 11 game is possible.

What do you bid? Keep in mind this is a new partner and we havent discussed raising on 3 :)

When he sees the dummy is not too late to learn :)

 

If you hate 2♠ then 1NT I suppose.

 

2♠ always for me though.

[jillybean]

Im not ashamed of the suit but some (non bbf) players say you should only raise on 3 with a stiff.

I agree this is 2♠ rather than 1N .

[aguahombre]

first point:

 

Passing 1/1 on this particular hand is not good for the reasons cascade explained, and for more reasons.

 

1) partner responded 1S, and unless he has five of them he does not have 4 hearts. that means the opponents have 8 or more hearts OR u have a bigger spade fit, or both --which backs into the possibility of game your way.

2) Because of 1), you need to make it more difficult for the opps to get into the auction cheeply. Passing 1/1 gives them double and 1NT. You don't want them to have these comfortable alternatives.

 

Passing 1/1 with other hands still leaves too much room for the opps to get back into the auction. Often, the race to 1NT is important to win, or for your side to bypass.

 

next I will give my humble opinion on 2S vs 1Nt. that will be more controversial.

[aguahombre]

How much I hate dropping 1/1 cannot be described in words

Please elaborate.

elaborate without words? :)

[Jlall]

Don't pass if you might reasonably have a game still. Here game is definitely in play opposite not much.

[P_Marlowe]

1NT.

 

I dont mind raising with only 3 card support, but I need

a shortage.

If you bid on, you make it harder for the 4th chair to get

in, so if you have a reasonable opening hand, bid.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Flameous]

First I though we were on the balancing seat with this collection cause there was that second P already :) (1NT clear)

 

Here also I think 1NT clear. But my style is to raise with three cards only when I have no other bids possible.

[effervesce]

1NT or 2♠ depending on partnership style. Passing is terrible-there's a decent chance we have game, and we dont want to let the opps in the bidding cheaply.

[ochinko]

I am not afraid to pass. I've missed games before. Pushing forward requires partner not only to have a maximum hand, but also one that fits with mine very well.

[pooltuna]

In general I don't mind passing a 1/1 when partner is a passed hand.

 

Here however we hardly have an opening hand that we are ashamed of and if partner has a nice 11 game is possible.

What do you bid? Keep in mind this is a new partner and we havent discussed raising on 3 :)

 

If partner has a decent 11 he should have opened.

AMEN!!!

[jillybean]

How much I hate dropping 1/1 cannot be described in words

Please elaborate.

elaborate without words? :(

funny :D

Do you mean hate dropping THIS 1/1 rather than hate dropping 1/1 per se?

I have to agree; this pass wasn't my best. Im busy trying to adjust to a pickup partner and making some bad decisions.

 

Now, 1N 2♠?

[aguahombre]

I have found that when opps pass 1/1 we have an opportunity to gain or break even, and still at the one-level. We often win the "race to 1NT", double to find a cheap 2-level fit, or make them bid 2 of the suit they dropped. these things are all better, or the same as when the 1/1 was passed.

 

On your given hand, I like a 1NT rebid because:

 

1)size and shape -- stoppers are for wimps.

2)LHO is still going to be hesitant to enter a misfit-sounding auction.

3)Partner will show club support if that is a good thing.

4)Partner will rebid spades with 5 (yes, he will).

[mike777]

[hv=d=n&v=b&s=saxxhxxdaqxckt982]133|100|Scoring: MP

P (P) 1♣ (P)

1♠ (P) P[/hv]

 

This auction was posted as part of another thread (laws and rulings), one of the comments was

How much I hate dropping 1/1 cannot be described in words

Please elaborate.

2s with Axx in spades and xx in hearts.

[nigel_k]

2♠.

 

You might pass with three spades and an ordinary balanced 13, but this hand is much better than that and has good playing strength, especially if partner has five spades.

 

You can raise spades with three, with or without a shortage, if your hand is suitable, which this is. If you don't have a 5-3 spade fitm then partner has three hearts at most and NT should be played from his side. If you are playing normal (up the line) responses, partner is quite likely to have five spades anyway.

 

However, it would be helpful to know partner's approach. Will he respond 1♠ with 4 spades and a diamond suit? What will he do over 1NT with five spades?

[Cascade]

In general I don't mind passing a 1/1 when partner is a passed hand.

 

Here however we hardly have an opening hand that we are ashamed of and if partner has a nice 11 game is possible.

What do you bid? Keep in mind this is a new partner and we havent discussed raising on 3 :lol:

 

If partner has a decent 11 he should have opened.

AMEN!!!

Opening vulnerable 11s will lead to lots of minus 100s.

 

Here though that is only marginally relevant since even good 10s and 9s might give play for game.

[the hog]

2S on the given hand. I have never passed a 1/1 in my life and will never do so. Why offer an open invitation to the opponents to compete?

[pooltuna]

2S on the given hand. I have never passed a 1/1 in my life and will never do so. Why offer an open invitation to the opponents to compete?

because +300 or +500 is better than +140?

[655321]

Agree with everyone that this hand is far to good to pass a 1/1, but I do think passing a 1/1 is fine with a disgusting 12 count, or worse.

 

I have never passed a 1/1 in my life and will never do so. Why offer an open invitation to the opponents to compete?

 

Wow. Then either your opponents have an easy time because you have never opened light in 3rd seat, or your partner has a nightmare trying to guess whether you have 14 or 9 after your rebid.

[the hog]

2S on the given hand. I have never passed a 1/1 in my life and will never do so. Why offer an open invitation to the opponents to compete?

because +300 or +500 is better than +140?

wtf? If you play against turkeys you might get these results....maybe.

[mike777]

if the issue is can we ever pass a 1/1 after third seat opening then...of course we can....

 

even if we assume pard will not have a bal. 11 or decent unbal ten I still rebid on this example

[awm]

I've gotten many good results from passing one level responses.

 

Occasionally opponents do let you play 1M. This is usually when the suit is breaking 3-3 (else one of them might have a takeout double), and plays pretty well. More often, the opponents balance and we compete to the two-level, buying the contract. The win here is that we pretty often get to play 2♠, whereas if we had raised partner would make a game try and force us to play 3♠. Sure, occasionally opponents can profitably compete to the three level and this would've been hard for them to find if we had raised directly, but more often the information gained by partner (our hand is minimum, and if we raise we have a real hand) comes in valuable.

 

With that said, I don't like to pass the one-level response when I have a solid opening bid. There are plenty of hands where game is good, the easiest examples being double fit hands (for example ♠KQxxx ♥xx ♦xx ♣Axxx is an excellent game). If you play some combination of methods where you open both shapely one-suiters and two-suiters on sub-minimum values passing may be more appealing though.

[skjaeran]

I might pass 1/1 facing a passed hand, with the right hand for that.

 

But this is not the right hand. Easy raise to 2♠, IMO. It's the most descriptive bid, it keeps open the possibility to reach game vs the right hand, and it preempts the opps when it's a competitive hand.