phil_20686 Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 [hv=d=e&v=b&s=skxxxxxxhdqxxxcxx]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv] RHO opens 4h first in at all red. Will you bid 4s here? Would you bid at favourable? How would a change of scoring to teams affect your choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OleBerg Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 When in doubt, always bid 4♠ over 4♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcD Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Pass . 4♠ is brilliant but my partners cannot take a joke . 4♠ could possibly work at MP , would even less consider it at IMP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 I'd bid 4♠ if I knew partner wouldn't act afterwards, but being raised to 6 its so ugly. So put me on balancing sit, or opposite passed hand partner and I am trying 4♠, on a live seat I won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 4♠. IMPs or MP, but losing a double game swing is only a bottom at MPs, it is more expensive at IMPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 I pass, yes a double game swing is bad, but so is a phantom sacrifice and a failing slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Apart from the risks already mentioned, if we bid 4♠ there's a fair chance of losing 850 in 5♥x. Or are we going to bid 5♠ too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 4S is simply a beginner bid. Partner is rarely going to pass if we bid 4S. Hes favorite to have enough values to go on. Usually when a bid show 5 to 20 pts and isnt forcing, its a bad bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_20686 Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 4S is simply a beginner bid. I'm pretty sure this basically isnt true. Does it not feel to you guys that 4h is almost certainly cold? There are 25 HCP or so between teh two hands still to bid, given that most experts open at the one level with 12 HCP even in very aggressive hands. It feels to me that 4h is cold maybe 9/10 times? Is this too optimistic? As for being raised. I felt that partner is quite unlikely to raise me without 3 trumps, in which case this hand has similar playing strength to say AKxxxxxQxxxxx I'm pretty sure most ppl would bid 4s with this hand? Besides, surely partner will be relatively conservative here when he has heart length? If i play in 5s-1 then this might still be cheap vs 4h, and at worst i lose 5 playing imps. Of course this is a disaster playing MP, and this was the principle worry, and going -1 vs -1 of course. It feels like whenever the HCP divide evenly between the two hands bidding wins. Whenever partner is weaker and has a few spades bidding probably wins. When partner is stronger hand has spades there is danger, but 15 HCP outside of hearts might well vive slam decent play? AxxxxxxAJxAQx or AxxxxxxKJxAKx 7 spades 2d 1d ruff and just needs club finess. What are you expexting partner to raise to the 5 level on here? Surely no one is driving slam here on less than 15? Am i being too conservative on what you should raise to slam on? In short, it feels to me like a phantom is fairly unlikely, and that when partner raises to slam this hand actually has quite a lot of playing strength with its 7-4 distribution. Further, when partner raises it seems like this is a far bigger worry at MP than imps, when -1 vs-1 is unlikely to be a worry, since partner is fairly unlikely to be able to make a t/o double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcphee Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Bidding 4S is one VERY HUGE position to take. This is simply not the hand partner is going to expect, nor is it even close to what you should hold. In the balancing position this is a different issue, directly this is placing the family jewels on the train tracks! And not only yours, partners' as well. If you are looking for a newspaper hand bid 4S, the genius bid. I bet we see your name in the obits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdanno Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 4♠, we do have 7 of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkDean Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 4S is simply a beginner bid. Partner is rarely going to pass if we bid 4S. Hes favorite to have enough values to go on. Usually when a bid show 5 to 20 pts and isnt forcing, its a bad bid. Mark me down as a beginner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OleBerg Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 4S is simply a beginner bid. Partner is rarely going to pass if we bid 4S. Hes favorite to have enough values to go on. Usually when a bid show 5 to 20 pts and isnt forcing, its a bad bid. Mark me down as a beginner. Not as a Dean? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Pass. But at favourable hmm.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 When in doubt, always bid 4♠ over 4♥.Fortunately I am not in doubt. I will certainly pass. Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olliebol Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 if youre fixed stay fixed pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Obvious pass. It is not that I don't want to bid 4S, I do, however I am concerned that partner will think I actually had my bid, when i have nothing like a 4S bid.I totally agree with Ben Lessard. Phil, I would drive to 7 opposite a 4S bid if I held -AxxxxxxAJxAQx As I think most players would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFA Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 4♠. Ugly, but with 7-0 in the majors I have to put on my bidding shoes in this sequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OleBerg Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Obvious pass. It is not that I don't want to bid 4S, I do, however I am concerned that partner will think I actually had my bid, when i have nothing like a 4S bid.I totally agree with Ben Lessard. Phil, I would drive to 7 opposite a 4S bid if I held -AxxxxxxAJxAQx As I think most players would. Sure. If partner holds: ♠ KQJ10xxx♥ x♦ Kxx♣ Kx He is simply a silly overbidder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 As I think most players would.Well, that turns out not to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Apart from the risks already mentioned, if we bid 4♠ there's a fair chance of losing 850 in 5♥x. Or are we going to bid 5♠ too? There's also a fair chance of +200 when passing nets us -650. TBH surprised anyone good would pass. (not surprised most bad players pass though, ZOMG 5 HCP!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Apart from the risks already mentioned, if we bid 4♠ there's a fair chance of losing 850 in 5♥x. Or are we going to bid 5♠ too? There's also a fair chance of +200 when passing nets us -650. TBH surprised anyone good would pass. (not surprised most bad players pass though, ZOMG 5 HCP!) I haven't actually said I'd pass - I was just pointing out a factor than no one had mentioned, and which I think is more important than the ones that had been mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesleyC Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Great question - I agree pretty strongly with the minority view. I'd bid 4S at all colours except UNFAV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 To me it's a clear pass at any scoring or vulnerability. If I bid 4♠ on this junk, I'm letting the opponents jerk me around. Besides, why shouldn't partner have a call over 4♥ and two passes? Chances are he has a better bid than I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 I sure hope partner can do something in 4-seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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