4th Suit After 2/1 Forcing

[pbleighton]

What do you recommend as the meaning of a 4th suit shown in a 2/1 auction (already forcing to game), such as 1S-2D-2H-3C? Choices I can think of are real suit, stopper  for NT, ask about stopper for NT, and waiting bid.  Would the meaning vary by context?

 

Playing with a pickup partner, what would you assume if he did it, and you hadn't discussed it?

[the hog]

"Choices I can think of are real suit, stopper for NT, ask about stopper for NT, and waiting bid. Would the meaning vary by context?"

 

I think this really depends on the hand. I would suggest with a minimum gf that you are asking for a stopper in the 4th suit.

 

There may be some very strong hands without support for either of opener's suits on which you are making a waiting bid.

 

The meaning that does not really make sense on most hands is for it to show a real suit. If you do have the other 2 suits, the hand looks pretty much like a misfit.

[belgian]

What do you recommend as the meaning of a 4th suit shown in a 2/1 auction (already forcing to game), such as 1S-2D-2H-3C? Choices I can think of are real suit, stopper  for NT, ask about stopper for NT, and waiting bid.

 

Real suit or stopper for NT don't seem to make much sense. I would assume "asking about stopper" even with a pickup partner.

[luis]

1s - 2d

2h - 3c

 

Playing 2/1 this is an interesting sequence.

It should be taken as showing at least 5/4 in the minors AND

 

- 5+ diammonds

- denies 3 spades

- denies 4h

- Maybe 5-5 in the minors

- A hand that is not interested in 3NT

 

Now opener options are:

3d: xxx in diammonds, maybe Jxxx

3h: 5-5 in the majors, looking for a heart fit denies 3 diammonds

3s: 6 spades and 4 good hearts denies 3 diammonds

3N: Balanced hand 5-4-2-2 or 5-4-1-3 stoppers in both majors.

4c: This can only be interpreted as a 5-4-0-4 hand

[the hog]

Why can't responder hold

K

KQx

KQxxxx

Jxx

 

The D, even though 6 in length, are not that great to warrant emphasising. I really think 3C is the most descriptive bid here.

[easy]

Today i held

 

xx xx AQ AQJ9xxx

 

my partner and i play 2/1 almost forcing to game. we had the following auction

 

pard me

 

1H 2c

2D 2S (fsf)(a rebid of 3C would be passable)

3H 4C

4D 4H all pass

 

The reason i bring this hand up is because here is a situation where i dont have a spade stopper or a primary fit with pard and i needed to know if pard had a stopper in spades. So my vote in the auction mentioned earlier would be that 4th suit is looking for a stopper in the suit bid or slamming.

 

(btw opponents for reasons known only to them did not lead a spade and pard made 6h)

[junyi_zhu]

In my idea, if you play 2/1 gameforcing, it's good to play 2NT rebid by responder as a waiting bid, 4th suit as a natural bid showing extra value.

I'll post my 2/1 framework. I've played this framework with Greg Hinze, it worked well.

[bglover]

This situation is quite common and probably requires some agreements. However, I think it should always show some extra values (i.e., more than 12-14 for the 2/1 response).

 

I was doing a mentoring session over the past weekend. One hand had a sequence that went 1h-2c-2d-2s... Both hands held 4 spades but the next bid was 3n. When I asked why bidder didn"t simply bid 3S her response was "We are already in a game force so it cannot be a real suit."

 

Well, it can't hurt to bid 3S here even if it isn't a real suit (unless there is some compelling reason to play NT from this bidder's side). That is a real consideration on this type of auction. If one hand is holding that KJx stopper for NT you want to right side the hand. So, perhaps you will occasionally miss the 4-4 major fit because one hand DOES have that compelling reason.

 

When that situation arises, however, it is usually not a disaster to be playing 3N even when the 4-4 fit exists (and this situation hardly ever arises if you play Flannery, if you have been following that other thread).