Interesting hand from last week's STaC

[rduran1216]

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=sj10753hadkj97632c]133|100|[/hv]

 

First and Foremost...

 

Do you open this hand in first seat?

[Phil]

1♦ for now. This won't be much of a debate.

 

What happens?

[rduran1216]

I opened 1D

 

1D 1H

1S 3NT

 

Now what?

 

 

your partner plays absolutely 0 conventions other than an eerily prediscussed, pulling someone out of 3NT is a slam try in the suit bid over 3NT

[the hog]

I opened 1D

 

1D 1H

1S 3NT

 

Now what?

 

 

your partner plays absolutely 0 conventions other than an eerily prediscussed, pulling someone out of 3NT is a slam try in the suit bid over 3NT

Well if you knew that pulling him from 3NT was a slam try, you shouldn't have opened.

Playing no 2 suited conventions, I pass first.

[rduran1216]

I opened 1D

 

1D 1H

1S 3NT

 

Now what?

 

 

your partner plays absolutely 0 conventions other than an eerily prediscussed, pulling someone out of 3NT is a slam try in the suit bid over 3NT

Well if you knew that pulling him from 3NT was a slam try, you shouldn't have opened.

Playing no 2 suited conventions, I pass first.

if i pass...i will never be able to show the distributional nature of my hand

[the hog]

I opened 1D

 

1D 1H

1S 3NT

 

Now what?

 

 

your partner plays absolutely 0 conventions other than an eerily prediscussed, pulling someone out of 3NT is a slam try in the suit bid over 3NT

Well if you knew that pulling him from 3NT was a slam try, you shouldn't have opened.

Playing no 2 suited conventions, I pass first.

if i pass...i will never be able to show the distributional nature of my hand

You will actually be able to show it more accurately with a 2 suited overcall.

[mike777]

Dealer: West Vul: N/S Scoring: Unknown

♠ J10753 ♥ A ♦ KJ97632 ♣ [space]

 

First and Foremost...

 

Do you open this hand in first seat?

pass

 

my hcp are in my short suit.

 

This seems like an easy pass, ...next?

[EricK]

I pass first time. I hope to then bid ♦ and then ♠ (unless opps show particular length in these suits).

[rd6789]

Do you open this hand in first seat?

No, I pass and hope to show the shape later by a X or a 2-suited overcall.

[655321]

Open 1♦ then bid spades twice.

 

This just shows 6-5, not sure how this can be taken as a slam try. Perhaps your partner has been burnt by pickup partners ripping his 3NT to 4m out of fear. He might just have been letting you know that 4♦ (instead of 4♠) over 3NT would be a slam try in diamonds, and not a hand that was too weak to play 3NT.

[dilipshind]

I'd bid 2D.

[mtvesuvius]

I'd bid 2D.

LOL

[bid_em_up]

I'd bid 2D.

This is so wrong, I can't even manage to LOL at it*

 

*Unless the 2D opening shows some sort of diamonds+another, and even then, it gets an LOL.

[mtvesuvius]

1♦, then rebid ♠ twice. Partner should be able to realize what is going on after you pull to 4♠ hopefully. What partner said about slam tries, probably so you wouldn't pull their 3NT bids, however this is a clear pull of 3NT and partner should understand that. Passing looks decent, but with such long ♦ it will be very tough to show 5=7 here. Take the auction:

 

P - (1♥) - P - (4♥)

?

 

You can only show 1 suit, and if you do decide to show 2 suits you may have to play 5♠.

 

Compare that auction to this one:

 

1♦ - (1♥) - P - (4♥)

4♠

 

Now you've shown both suits with relatively accurate lengths, and who knows, partner might even make a negative double on the first round!

 

Of course if the opponents' suit is clubs then it is much harder, but it won't be much easier anyway if you pass first.

[pooltuna]

I opened 1D

 

1D 1H

1S 3NT

 

Now what?

 

 

your partner plays absolutely 0 conventions other than an eerily prediscussed, pulling someone out of 3NT is a slam try in the suit bid over 3NT

Well if you knew that pulling him from 3NT was a slam try, you shouldn't have opened.

Playing no 2 suited conventions, I pass first.

And this is only one of the bidding sequences why passing first causes you less ♥burn

[Fluffy]

we are limited by the 1♠ bid, 4♠ cannot be a slam try IN SPADES. So your only convention doesn't apply. If you are 100% sure it does, then try 5♦.

 

 

BTW preempting in diamonds then bidding 4♠ might show this hand pretty well, I don't understand how 2 guys can laugh of a newcomer's bid on a far from expert's forum without giving any reason.

[Phil]

I'd bid 2D.

LOL

Not that crazy.

[aguahombre]

Again, I am glad I don't have 2D available to abuse. Am not worried about opening one diamond and removing to 4S on the posted auction.

 

Even though the 1S rebid did not limit my strength (might be a balanced 2NT rebid with 4 spades in our style), the removal of 3NT to 4S is really weak. This is because with a very strong two suiter I would have JS rebid 2S -- and with a decent two-suited minimum I would have opened 1S, not 1D.

[ONEferBRID]

Pass, then as Hog said:

You will actually be able to show it more accurately with a 2 suited overcall.

.

 

I know, it may be a problem with "ordinary" Michaels when Sp is one of the suits.

 

There is a modification to Michaels that can always get Sp into the fray -- and that is with Bailey Cuebids:

 

If it goes p p ( 1C) - ??

then 2C! = Spades and one of the other 2 suits ( ie. one of those that would have been shown with a Un2NT! bid ) -- Hts or Diam.

 

If it goes p p ( 1H ) - ??

then Bailey = Michaels : 2H! = Sp and a minor

[Flameous]

Highest and other has been known as Michael's Cue in Finland for as long as I know but I've never heard of Bailey's Cue.

 

Anyhow for the actual hand, I pass in first and second. On third I open 2 or 3♦.

Playing precision or other weak opening system, I open with 1♠. I can't reverse in to spades and I don't want to put myself into position where I would have to. True, it's not so big problem with ♠s but still comes up.

[aguahombre]

Playing precision or other weak opening system, I open with 1♠. I can't reverse in to spades and I don't want to put myself into position where I would have to. True, it's not so big problem with ♠s but still comes up.

Is this right? I don't play one of those systems mentioned, but I cannot picture having to "reverse" to the top suit. IF pard's response is in notrump or clubs, I can just rebid my 7-card suit, not introduce the jack-led five-bagger. With a heart response a spade bid is not a reverse.

 

seems you have more safety opening this hand if the one-bid is limited than with 2/1 or sayc.

[Flameous]

True, I can rebid diamonds but it still means we can miss our 5-3 spade fit. I guess I should have mentioned that I usually also have methods to show 6+ or longer minors after major openings.

[ArtK78]

There are some very "interesting" ideas floating around in this thread.

 

I would open 1♦ and then bid spades and spades. And if I were playing Precision I would open 1♦ and then bid spades and spades (unless one of these bids was conventional).

 

The idea that this hand is not good enough to open the bidding is mind boggling. I bet that even Roth and Stone would open the bidding.

[skjaeran]

Obvious 1♦ opening.

 

I'm bidding 4♠ now, pretty obvious too. Showing 5-6+ and not enough strength to GF last time, my hand is limited.

[kenrexford]

I'll bid 4♠ at this point.

 

If partner says that 4♠ is a slam try, I'll agree. It asks partner to bid slam if he has two of the four of the top five missing diamonds and spades.

 

So, if partner has something like ♠KQx ♥J10xx ♦AQx ♣Qxx, a balanced 14-count, he can accept my slam try. With no diamond Queen, but those points somewhere else less useful, he might get aggressive, in which case we need the diamonds to come in.

 

So, interpret this as a "slam try" if you want. A five-loser hand could be a "slam try" hand.