Hilver Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Playing classic Precision, how would you open the hand below? 1♣ or would you just bid 1♥? MP'sall white ♠ ---♥ 10 9 8 4 2♦ A Q 10♣ A K Q 7 6 3 1. What are your arguments against opening 1♣?2. What are your arguments in favour of opening 1♥? Thx Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 5-3-6-0 is just too strong upside to not H-ask next after 1C. Do that even with 5-2-6-0 or 5-3-5-0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbforster Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'll take the 14th trick for sure! With 1 less diamond I might upgrade to 1♣, with one less heart or club I think a natural opening would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Definitely upgrade to a 1♣ opening as long as you take away one of the pips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 1H, it's just too tough if you open 1C and get the nearly inevitable spade preemption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 If you aren't taking away my 6th club I would open it 2♣. If you are then 1♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I hate hate hate upgrading to 1♣ because of distribution (even if it's a rare 6530)! Except with a one suiter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 If you take away: (1) A small club. I'll open 1♥, as showing both suits will be easier this way. This is also not as good a hand as it looks. (2) A small heart. I'll open 1♣. The issue is that partner more frequently has to pass a 2♣ opening on an ok hand (whereas he could bid 1♠ or 1NT over 1♥). I find that upgrading "nice 15s" out of the 2♣ opening tends to be much more helpful than similar upgrades out of 1M. This also looks more like a "club one suiter" than a true "two suiter" with the 4-6 shape, and "losing" hearts in a competitive auction is less of a concern when I have four bad ones. (3) A small diamond. I'll stick with 1♥. It's too easy to miss a nine-card heart fit (and a making game) by opening 2♣ on a 5-6 hand. The AQ-tight holding in diamonds is sort of dubious, and combined with the difficulty of showing both suits in a competitive auction deters me from 1♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akhare Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 1♥ for me, after removing either extra card in the minors. BTW, assuming that 2♣ shows 6+ and that the extra card is the ♦T, are there any takers for the 2♣ opening (11-15)? If the spades are split fairly evenly among the remaining three hands, the opps might have a tough time chiming in with ♠ at the 2 level.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 1H. Much more descriptive than 1C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effervesce Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Remove a diamond: 1st choice 1♣, 2nd choice 2♣ and 3rd choice 1♥. The hand has too much playing power and controls for opening 2♣ or 1♥. Remove a club: 1♥ Remove a heart: 2♣ (especially if 2♣ promises 6). If we're worried about the opponents bidding spades, at least a 2♣ prevents them having a weak 2♠ overcall that would be available after a 1♥ opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowerline Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Isn't suit quality a factor? Same hcp, same distro, but with a better heart suit, I wouldn't hesitate to open 1♥. But the difference in suit quality between hearts and clubs is huge on this hand. IMHO the choice should be between 1♣ and 2♣... I think this hand is strong enough to open 1♣. I also believe that hearts can only be a good contract for us if partner has a good 4crd suit in support. Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Isn't suit quality a factor? Same hcp, same distro, but with a better heart suit, I wouldn't hesitate to open 1♥. But the difference in suit quality between hearts and clubs is huge on this hand. IMHO the choice should be between 1♣ and 2♣... I think this hand is strong enough to open 1♣. I also believe that hearts can only be a good contract for us if partner has a good 4crd suit in support. Steven No, suit quality is totally irrelevant. If you havexxxxxAxAKQxxx This is a 1S opening in Pecision, not 2C!If you open 2C, you will never show a 5 card S suit, only 4. As for H only being a good contract with 4? Nonsense. ♠ ---♥ 10 9 8 4 2♦ A Q 10♣ A K Q 7 6 3 xxxxAxxKxxxxx What contract do you want to be in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbforster Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 No, suit quality is totally irrelevant. If you havexxxxxAxAKQxxx This is a 1S opening in Pecision, not 2C!If you open 2C, you will never show a 5 card S suit, only 4.That depends on how you play 2♣ and I'm not sure there's a consensus. I know people who normally open their 5M-6m hands in the minor (1♦ or 2♣) even without downgrading a 5 small suit to be treated as a 4 card one. Others prefer to open 1M on these. At any rate, with the hand you gave having only 4 losers I'm opening that 1♣ rather than 1♠ or 2♣, but perhaps others would not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilver Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Sorry, remove a small club. Thanks for your replies Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 That depends on how you play 2♣ and I'm not sure there's a consensus. I know people who normally open their 5M-6m hands in the minor (1♦ or 2♣) even without downgrading a 5 small suit to be treated as a 4 card one. Others prefer to open 1M on these. snipped If they do this, then they are playing some home grown club. The op was about Precision, not a do it yourself version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 That depends on how you play 2♣ and I'm not sure there's a consensus. I know people who normally open their 5M-6m hands in the minor (1♦ or 2♣) even without downgrading a 5 small suit to be treated as a 4 card one. Others prefer to open 1M on these. snipped If they do this, then they are playing some home grown club. The op was about Precision, not a do it yourself version. Like Meckwell or Super Precision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 1H, it's just too tough if you open 1C and get the nearly inevitable spade preemption. lol I thought it was 0535 when I posted this FWIW. I saw 053 so assumed it was 5! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowerline Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Isn't suit quality a factor? Same hcp, same distro, but with a better heart suit, I wouldn't hesitate to open 1♥. But the difference in suit quality between hearts and clubs is huge on this hand. IMHO the choice should be between 1♣ and 2♣... I think this hand is strong enough to open 1♣. I also believe that hearts can only be a good contract for us if partner has a good 4crd suit in support. Steven No, suit quality is totally irrelevant. If you havexxxxxAxAKQxxx This is a 1S opening in Pecision, not 2C!If you open 2C, you will never show a 5 card S suit, only 4. As for H only being a good contract with 4? Nonsense. ♠ ---♥ 10 9 8 4 2♦ A Q 10♣ A K Q 7 6 3 xxxxAxxKxxxxx What contract do you want to be in? Every time when you are in a situation where there are multiple acceptable bids, suit quality should be factor in making your choice. This is just a matter of hand evaluation. I don't see why this shouldn't be so in Precision. Opening 1♥ on the example hand will make sure you won't miss 4♥, but you can miss 6♣. I would bid the example hand as a 6-4. Though I admit the situation is different if you play a relay system that allows you to show exact distribution and position of honours. Opposite your example responding hand, hearts and clubs will have to break (assuming the opponents will force you in spades). If they do, 5♣ will win as well... Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Not playing precision - but for 1H speaks, that you havea min. with regards to HCP.So if you open 1H followed by a jump to 3C, which as far as I recall showes 5-5 with a max., you will have finished the description of your hand in two bids. What more do you want? With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 "Every time when you are in a situation where there are multiple acceptable bids, suit quality should be factor in making your choice. This is just a matter of hand evaluation. I don't see why this shouldn't be so in Precision." Because not to open 1H in Precision denies the possession of a 5 card H suit, thats why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akhare Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 "Every time when you are in a situation where there are multiple acceptable bids, suit quality should be factor in making your choice. This is just a matter of hand evaluation. I don't see why this shouldn't be so in Precision." Because not to open 1H in Precision denies the possession of a 5 card H suit, thats why. Is it really that canonical? I am willing to bet that most people here would NOT open 1♥ with say 5♥s and 7♦s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Yes, Atul, the original version is that canonical. Just like in Polish Club, not to open a Major is to deny one. That is not to say, that some people change the system in Precision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akhare Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Yes, Atul, the original version is that canonical. Just like in Polish Club, not to open a Major is to deny one. That is not to say, that some people change the system in Precision. Oh wow -- thanks for the insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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