Take out or penalty?

[dickiegera]

East is Dealer: Equal V

 

Bidding P-1H-2C-3H

P-4H-X -P

?

 

Is this Take Out, Penalty, or do something intelligent?

 

East holds: Kxx,x,Kxxx, 987xx

 

Thank you

[Jlall]

This is takeout, 3136 16 count or w/e is typical.

 

As far as I can tell I have FIVE card support for partner and 2 kings and a stiff, passing over 3H was criminal. You must bid at least 4 clubs then. Now you can bid 5C.

[Codo]

It is: Do something intelligent, take out orientated., so raise partner.

[neilkaz]

It is: Do something intelligent, take out orientated., so raise partner.

And as Justin stated, it would have been quite intelligent to raise to 4 or 5♣ last turn. It is reasonably likely that the opps make 4♥ (ie if your kings aren't working) and if those kings are working you should have good play for 5♣.

 

One of the biggest sins in bridge is failure to support with support.

[dickiegera]

I am adding this to the initial post.

 

I chose not to push them into 4H and if they bid it freely I planed then to bid 5C.

I did bid 5C which went down 1.

Overcaller West held: Ax,J10xx,Ax,KJxxx.

 

Lost a finesse to stiff Q clubs.

Double was intended to be penalty however I believe that it normally

would be taken to be take out.

I believe that with Ax,J10xx,Ax,KJxxx one does not have a double the way the auction transpired.

I and my favorite partner are are trying to get better and WE would like opinions please.

 

I know that it would have been better if I had bid 4C immediately then Double would easily

be for penalty.

 

Thank you

[nigel_k]

The answer to what double means is that it means whatever you and your partner have agreed. I would play it as takeout but wouldn't say it is obvious if undiscussed.

 

You need specific agreements and also a general agreement about doubles. A typical agreement is that doubles are takeout unless they fit within a list of exceptions, then make that list of exceptions.

 

As to the strategy with your hand, it's usually a bad idea to keep silent hoping they stop short of game and make an overtrick. You might do this if you have some special reason to believe they can take more tricks than they would expect (such as a holding of KJx under LHO's suit), but on normal hands like this one they'll probably stop in 3♥ only when game doesn't make.

 

Your hand should either bid 4♣ and let partner make the final decision or bid 5♣ immediately to apply maximum pressure to them. I would bid 5♣ immediately. It turns out your partner's hand is unusually oriented to defence rather than offence, given his vulnerable 2 level overcall, and 5♣ is still an ok spot.

[mtvesuvius]

DSIP. So 5♣

[Double !]

Do Not understand why this hand didn't raise to 4C to start with. Failure to support with support, especially 5-card trump support, usually results in partner inaccurately evaluating the offensive vs. defensive value of his/her hand. To pass and then save is like giving the opponents a fielder's choice as well as taking partner out of the cooperative bidding equation.

Would you have had any questions about the meaning of partner's double had you initially raised clubs? I doubt it.

 

DHL

[dickiegera]

I agree that I should have bid 4C immediately.

That would have made it much simpler to read the double etc etc etc.

 

My only other question is: would double of four Hearts normally be

take out or penalty lacking my pass over 3 Hearts?

 

Thank you

[gwnn]

don't understand the question. what's the sequence you're talking about?

 

lacking means without as far as I know. so umm

 

1H-2C-3H-4C

4H-x?

[cherdanno]

I would bid 5♣ not 4♣ in the first round - am I really alone with that?

I would neither make a penalty double, nor a 2♣ overcall with your partner's hand. You could convince me about the penalty double.

[gnasher]

I agree with 5♣ over 3♥.