Claims again! UNDERCLAIM this time

[dogsbreath]

Hi :)

possible over-claim/unclear claim by declarer is under discussion in related thread.

 

I raised a related issue that got 'lost' in the other thread -so i mention it here..

 

Am I correct in believing that defenders cannot, according to the laws, be awarded trick(s) that it is impossible for them to make by ANY play?

 

On BBO it is common to see results like '6H - 10' where a player, possibly frustrated by a bidding misunderstanding or 'error' by his p, has simply given up.

This doesnt matter in single-table play but may affect the results in tourney play.

 

In a less extreme case: in a recent tourney a declarer claimed 2 of last 3 tricks holding 10,9,8 of the trump suit ..believing incorrectly that a higher trump was outstanding. ..surely this claim must be rejected , although the software understandably allows it.??

 

Rather than expect Uday et al to cope with this situation - the defender(s) should in this situation deny the claim.

In the event that they accept would the result be overturned on appeal according to current procedures?

 

Rgds Dog ;)

 

 

furnulum pani nolo

[Free]

Yes, nobody can claim get a trick he can't possibly make. If you play trumps and you say "I give a trump" while it's the highest, opps can't claim that trick, even if declarer just miscounted... It's dependent on sportivity from the opps, but if you watch the replay you can always call the TD and he should adjust the score.

[spwdo]

Yes, nobody can claim get a trick he can't possibly make.  If you play trumps and you say "I give a trump" while it's the highest, opps can't claim that trick, even if declarer just miscounted...  It's dependent on sportivity from the opps, but if you watch the replay you can always call the TD and he should adjust the score.

hi,

 

Well a lot of things depend on courtesy i think.

 

Just played tourney, opps claimed contract+2 where they had them all, we rejected and they claimed all outstanding tricks(contract+3).

 

There at least i think there are more important issues then getting a trick on a bridge table that u dont deserve, doesnt suit me to get free lunches wich i dont deserve , in fact i think ist degrading my selfrespect and honour if i had accepted that claim cause it simply wasnt mine.

 

Just like to make my bad scores on my own ;) and not gaining from unfair rule or software glitch/fault/misclick.

 

Same for undos , i always give em unless the next card( wich has critical info) has been played.

 

When i started this game i was thinking this is game for ladies and gentlemans.

 

Unfortunaly after hosting a lot of tourneys and playing a couple of hands myself i beginning to doubt that it applies to all.

 

Call me naief but i still believe my actions will someday change someone and change the " all reject my request for undos thinking" if not i still have my own dignity and i still will keep on doing what i think is right...

 

Marc

[mink]

I also have rejected underclaims from time to time. And I believe that, if the director learns that an underclaim had been accepted, he should adjust unconditionally.

 

The same is true in my oppinion if more tricks than possible are claimed, and the claim is accepted by accident. I recall that that happened to me once and I called the director and said that I accidently agreed to the claim, but he refused to adjust. I think this is wrong.

 

All this of course only applies for tricks that cannot be lost/won by rational play.

 

Karl

[kgr]

The same is true in my oppinion if more tricks than possible are claimed, and the claim is accepted by accident. I recall that that happened to me once and I called the director and said that I accidently agreed to the claim, but he refused to adjust. I think this is wrong.

 

True. This is an illegal claim, even if accepted.

Probably directors don't have enough time to verify the claim and adjust if necessary.

In a BBO tournemant my partner wanted to claim 1 trick, but accidently claimed all remaining; which was accepted by the leader (opp). The director was called by opps, but he didn't want to adjust. During the next board I was dummy and called the director again explaining the case.

He adjusted the result. (The pitty thing is that we were in a good contract on the next board, but lost too much time by this claim thing. Resulting in a time-out and an Av-).

[mikestar]

It is unethical for a player to knowingly accept a trick he cannot win by any legal play of the cards (note that in this case rational vs irrational play is not an issue, only legal play).

 

If this happens by accident and the director is informmed before the expiration of the correction period, the director MUST adjust.

 

This is very similar to the law for scoring errors. Let's say at the end of the hand it is agreed that N-S make 4S. They are vulnerable but North inadvertantly scores it as +420. It is unethical for E-W to knowingly accept that score, and if they do so also being mistaken about the vulnerability it MUST be corrected if discovered in time.

[Fluffy]

I´ve also rejected an underclaim since the standard line lead directly to an unavoidable endplay for an extra trick, wich far from an overtrrick, was another doubled undertrick (second/third). I don´t care if the rules state that declarer is forced to lead the King from Kxx, I play online to enjoy playing bridge, and such laws appying makes me feel sick, I don´t want to win at any cost, not even to win at all... I just wanna enjoy & learn.