Not the most natural auction

[Ant590]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=saq854hqxdckqjt62]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

Auction proceeds as follows (opps silent):

 

1♣[1] -- 1♠[2]

2♠[3] -- 3♠[4]

?

 

[1] Natural, any 11-13bal (inc. 5D332 & 4C441) or 17-19bal (all but 5D332)

[2] Transfer Walsh-ish: ♦s or 5-11 balanced

[3] Natural F1, confirms 5+♣

[4] Natural, extras (2NT would have been Leb/Ing)

 

What's your poison here then?

3NT (friv)?

4♣ (cue)?

4♦ (cue)?

4♠?

5♦ (exclusion)?

[karlson]

I will just bid 4s. Even if partner has the ideal hand (♠K and 2 of ♥AK and ♣A (or both red aces)), slam will probably be on a 3-2 spade break. And if I make a slam try, partner might well go with less than that.

 

I could maybe be convinced of 3n friv, but are you so sure that that's what it will be? Could opener not have 4xx5 still?

[Jlall]

Hasn't partner shown significant extras by bidding this way rather than starting with 1H to begin wtih? I assume he now has at least 11+ (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

Anyways, 3N friv seems obvious if thats the case.

[Jlall]

I will just bid 4s. Even if partner has the ideal hand (♠K and 2 of ♥AK and ♣A (or both red aces)), slam will probably be on a 3-2 spade break.

Huh? I think we have 9 spades!

[karlson]

I think we're supposed to cater to partner having a good 5-11 balanced with 3 spades (i.e. 9-11 or so). If he had a GF with diamonds and spades originally, I suspect he's going to be bidding more no matter what we do.

 

I don't play this exact style, but I was imagining that most non-GF 4x5x or even 4-6 will start with 1h.

 

I suppose the comment about 3n being friv suggests I'm wrong, but perhaps OP could give a little more info on what hands with 4 spades bid 1s instead of 1h.

[Jlall]

I think we're supposed to cater to partner having a good 5-11 balanced with 3 spades. If he had a GF with diamonds and spades originally, I suspect he's going to be bidding more no matter what we do.

 

I don't play this exact style, but I was imagining that most non-GF 4x5x or even 4-6 will start with 1h.

 

I suppose the comment about 3n being friv suggests I'm wrong, but perhaps OP could give a little more info on what hands with 4 spades bid 1s instead of 1h.

Ok yeah, need more info! I assumed with diamonds and spades and a good hand he'd start with 1S then bid spades.

[Ant590]

Yeah, this is exactly the problem we had on the spot.

 

We're playing that if 1♠ is the diamond option, it denies a four card major unless game-forcing.

 

So it boils down to whether 3♠ can be bid on a three card suit. This much is un-discussed.

 

If it promises four then responder has 5+♦4♠ and significant extras.

 

But if it promises four then what is responder meant to do with a maximum balanced hand with three spades... we wanted 1♣ - 1NT to be invitational opposite the 11-13 option, so 1♣-1♠ can contain eleven counts. Then 3NT shouldn't be frivolous, I agree, but our blanket agreement is/was that after a reverse and raise, 3NT is frivolous.

 

That's the extent of our agreements :S

[Phil]

With 5♦/4♠ we always start with 1♠ (in a T-Walsh setup).

 

No different than bidding 1♦ naturally and then showing your spades.

 

Did I reverse? No matter, I think pard has an opening hand, since pard isn;t raising spades without 4.

 

3N (although I think I'm too good for a non-serious anything) does let pard cue the A♣, which I'm sure he'll do if he has it.

[gnasher]

what is responder meant to do with a maximum balanced hand with three spades.

He chooses between 3♣, 3NT and 3♥ (FSF).

 

This is equivalent to the problem of what to bid after:

  1♣-1♠

  2♥-?

when responder has a 10-count without five spades. We don't raise hearts on three cards there, do we?