Whooop

[jillybean]

2nd over all, 59% at the club last night :)

 

Here's one unremarkable but bothersome hand,

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=st9xxhktdjt9xckxx]133|100|Scoring: MP

1♥ (1♠) ?[/hv]

[gwnn]

Hi jilly, way to go with the 59%:) pass, is this a trick question?

[hrothgar]

Hi Kathryn

 

Congrats on placing. I'm not sure there is any "right" answer on this hand. If I had to assign points (Challenge the Champs or some such), I'd expect to see

 

X = 8

P = 6

1N = 3

2♥ = 2

[Jlall]

Disagree with Richard, I think pass is clear. There is not much need to bid when you have 4 spades and marginal values.

[pooltuna]

2nd over all, 59% at the club last night :P

 

Here's one unremarkable but bothersome hand,

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=st9xxhktdjt9xckxx]133|100|Scoring: MP

1♥ (1♠) ?[/hv]

an uncomfortable 1NT or pass look to be the choices and since I get to bid b4 my LHO I get to beat them to bidding 1NT :)

[vuroth]

I like pass, but I'm a notoriously unagressive and incorrect bidder. :)

[Phil]

I would pass.

 

If pard passes out 1♠, you should feel pretty good.

[neilkaz]

Hmm...I'll take the risk of going against some serious expert talent here and bid 1NT, being in the Whereagles camp that thinks I am close enough to stopping ♠ and if PD is concerned he can likely ask for a stop later.

 

It is MP all white. If we bid 1NT and take 7 tricks we get 90. If the opps end up in 1NT and we take 7 tricks we get 50 and visa versa.

 

If PD passes out 1♠ and we beat it one, that is 50, if we beat it 2 it is only 100 but that won't outscore what we may make should 2NT or 2♥ or 3m make.

 

I don't care for X here as we don't have 4 cards in each minor and on a bad day end up in a 33 fit. After our 1NT pd may rebid a 4 card minor anyhow and we end up in the same place as after X.

[Quantumcat]

I think pass is best, you can still bid 1NT when your pard doubles. If he passes, defending should be good! If you were a little stronger you'd probably have to bid 1NT. Maybe if you had shorter spades, 2♥ would be an interesting choice, because they would likely end up in 2♠ and your partner will feel better about leading a heart. I have a partner who is fond of doing this. We have ended up in some fun contracts but at least when he doesn't raise, i have medium length in their suit, and I know from the auction he has a few high cards, I know he's not going to have the king doubleton.

[jillybean]

I passed but thought my hand with 3 T's and 2 9's was perhaps too good to pass.

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=s85hq7643daq3caj6&w=sk7hj8dk62cqt9742&e=saqj64ha952d854c5&s=st932hktdjt97ck83]399|300|Scoring: MP

1♥ (1♠) AP[/hv]

 

Misdefended to let them make 1♠

[inquiry]

I would go with pass... you know, it is a legal bid... and the auction is not over.

[the hog]

Pass with this. Partner should reopen with a X on your shown hand.

[vuroth]

I was going to ask yesterday - what hands pass in the passout seat? Maybe hands with 3+ spades, or 2 spades with strong defensive values?

 

I agree that partner should be doubling.

[gwnn]

you know, it is a legal bid...

No it's not.

[ArtK78]

you know, it is a legal bid...

No it's not.

I agree. But it is a legal call.

[kenrexford]

Justin was dead right, IMO. The reason why passing makes so much sense includes the fact that you have four spades. That increases the chance that partner will have 2533 shape, or better, and make the obvious reopening double.

 

Of course, partner might opt to pass with 2533 and then blame you for not doubling for him.

 

BTW -- after 1♥-X-?, I would consider bidding 2♥ with this hand, notwithstanding the doubleton heart, simply because of the lead advantage. That may be sick, and I probably would not do it in reality, but I point this out because it brings up a point, namely that an aggressive bid here is not that beneficial to partner on lead, as you may well be on lead if you defend. Instead, a call by you might actually help Declarer more, if the opponents buy the contract.

[bill1157]

for the expert, pass makes the most sense, but for the B/I either 1NT or 2♥ is better: you are more likely to score well declaring the hand than possibly misdefending.

 

Bill

[jillybean]

for the expert, pass makes the most sense, but for the B/I either 1NT or 2♥ is better: you are more likely to score well declaring the hand than possibly misdefending.

 

Bill

Seriously?

[Winstonm]

I don't mind the 10xxx stopper for 1N, but the overall hand isn't strong enough for this free bid. If I held the same hand with 9-10 hcps I would chose 1N over negative double.

[neilkaz]

I don't mind the 10xxx stopper for 1N, but the overall hand isn't strong enough for this free bid. If I held the same hand with 9-10 hcps I would chose 1N over negative double.

Hmm PD opened..we'd respond 1NT with 6 HCP. Why do we need to be stronger here?

[Winstonm]

I don't mind the 10xxx stopper for 1N, but the overall hand isn't strong enough for this free bid.  If I held the same hand with 9-10 hcps I would chose 1N over negative double.

Hmm PD opened..we'd respond 1NT with 6 HCP. Why do we need to be stronger here?

In standard bidding, the reason for responding with 5-6 HCPs is due to the fact that partner may have been forced by system to open a 20-21 point hand at the 1-level. We are required to bid one time to keep the bidding open and cater to this possibility.

 

Edit: As an interesting note, the earliest books on Precision remarked on the benefit of the limited one bid that responder did NOT have to always keep the bidding open with 6-7 HCPs.

 

Now that RHO has interfered - partner will get another chance to act and thus we can separate our bids and make them more precise. An immediate 1N can now show 9-10 and a pass followed by a subsequent NT bid can show 6-8.

[neilkaz]

I don't mind the 10xxx stopper for 1N, but the overall hand isn't strong enough for this free bid.  If I held the same hand with 9-10 hcps I would chose 1N over negative double.

Hmm PD opened..we'd respond 1NT with 6 HCP. Why do we need to be stronger here?

In standard bidding, the reason for responding with 5-6 HCPs is due to the fact that partner may have been forced by system to open a 20-21 point hand at the 1-level. We are required to bid one time to keep the bidding open and cater to this possibility.

 

Now that RHO has interfered - partner will get another chance to act and thus we can separate our bids and make them more precise. An immediate 1N can now show 9-10 and a pass followed by a subsequent NT bid can show 6-8.

Thx for the nice explanation. I've always played that you ignore the opp overcall and bid 1 Nt with 6 to 10- as long as you think it likely to have a stopper.

 

I think I probably play with too many PD's that don't know how to reopen.

[Winstonm]

I don't mind the 10xxx stopper for 1N, but the overall hand isn't strong enough for this free bid.  If I held the same hand with 9-10 hcps I would chose 1N over negative double.

Hmm PD opened..we'd respond 1NT with 6 HCP. Why do we need to be stronger here?

In standard bidding, the reason for responding with 5-6 HCPs is due to the fact that partner may have been forced by system to open a 20-21 point hand at the 1-level. We are required to bid one time to keep the bidding open and cater to this possibility.

 

Now that RHO has interfered - partner will get another chance to act and thus we can separate our bids and make them more precise. An immediate 1N can now show 9-10 and a pass followed by a subsequent NT bid can show 6-8.

Thx for the nice explanation. I've always played that you ignore the opp overcall and bid 1 Nt with 6 to 10- as long as you think it likely to have a stopper.

 

I think I probably play with too many PD's that don't know how to reopen.

What we are talking about here is an old fashioned concept of "free bids" and I think it is confusing because much of the old style has been discredited as too conservative - and that viewpoint to a large degree has been proven true.

 

However, the area of freely bidding 1NT has not changed a great deal and has stood the test of time that it should show better than minimum values.

[Winstonm]

However, the area of freely bidding 1NT has not changed a great deal and has stood the test of time that it should show better than minimum values.

 

Not that I am the end-all expert on these things, but I can expand a little on my thinking and maybe it will help.

 

If you held 5-6 balanced and "knew for a fact" that partner had opened a flat 12-count the only reason to bid would be to steal the contract from the opponents - and even then it would be risky because you could go down more than the value of the contract they ccould make.

 

It seems some players fear that opener won't reopen - well, if opener won't reopen chances are pretty good that the opponents are not in their best contract. If they have 22 combined and you have 18, it isn't so bad for them to play 1S in a 5/2 fit rather than 1N or 2C, 2D, or 2H in a better fit.

 

Sometimes, silence is still golden. :)

[eyhung]

I agree with the principle that 1NT after the overcall does not show 6-10, it shows a slightly better hand because partner now has another chance to act. But defining it as 9-10 feels much too tight. One important idea in competitive bidding is showing partner that you have useful values -- there is a huge difference between a worthless hand (no controls, no tricks) and a hand with some value. Remember your experience playing contracts where one hand is broke, usually after 2NT all pass or 1m all pass -- you take far fewer tricks than you would expect because you cannot reach the weak hand to lead up to the strong hand. Letting partner know that this doesn't exist is important, so I prefer 1NT to be more like a good 7 - 10 HCP here.

 

With your length in spades, partner will frequently be short in the overcalled suit so will often act if you pass, but sometimes partner does not have a clearcut action at his second turn. For example, sometimes the opponents raise to 2S and now partner has to guess whether your side should compete to the 3-level when you could be potentially broke. So I would strive to bid 1NT here on any 8-count or a good 7 with a real stopper (usually at least 2 controls: ace = 2, king = 1, but possibly a hand that contains a double-stopper of spades such as KQx and a queen on the side).

 

Without a real stopper, passing (or raising partner's opening bid) becomes more attractive. The actual hand is a good 7 (2 controls, the king of partner's suit, good intermediates) but lacks a real stop, so I will pass and await further developments. If I had slightly more values to compensate for the lack of a real stopper, I would bid 1NT and let partner in on the good news that I do not have a worthless hand.