nigel_k Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 We lost a Swiss teams last night after leading going into the last round, mainly because of three slam (or not) hands. The third one is below: [hv=d=w&w=sakq9xxhxdkxcqjxx&e=stxhqxdqjxxcakxxx]266|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]Bid these hands. North overcalls 2♥. Unfortunately you are not playing Kickback though perhaps you will consider doing so after this hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 1♠ (2♥) Dbl (PASS)3♠ (PASS) 4♠ (PASS)PASS (PASS) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I'm torn between 3♠ or 3♥ response to double. 1♠-(2♥)-X3♥-4♣ 3♥ = any GF4♥-4NT 4♥= agrees clubs5♣-pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 1♠ (2♥) Dbl (PASS)3♠ (PASS) 4♠ (PASS)PASS (PASS) Me too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olliebol Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 1♠ 2♥ D p3♠ p 4♣ P4♦ P 4♠ P4NT P 5♣ PP whereby 4♣l is real or cue for clubs 4♠ confirms cue 5♣1or 4 but more realistically east bids 4♠ after 3♠ :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 3♠ feels like an underbid to me with the likely side fit after a negative double. Mark me down for 4♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Yes the minor cards are fitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 3♠ feels like an underbid to me with the likely side fit after a negative double. Mark me down for 4♠. Are you suggesting that 3♠ would be non-forcing? I'd expect the negative double of 2♥ (which may force the 3-level) plus opener's jump rebid to establish a force at least until suit agreement. I would not expect all those minor suit fillers to accompany a 4♠ bid. Bidding 3♠ or 4♠ may be right, but it carries a certain amount of risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONEferBRID Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 I agree with Tim who wrote: Are you suggesting that 3♠ would be non-forcing? I'd expect the negative double of 2♥ (which may force the 3-level) plus opener's jump rebid to establish a force at least until suit agreement. My thoughts exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 I'm torn between 3♠ or 3♥ response to double. 1♠-(2♥)-X3♥-4♣ 3♥ = any GF4♥-4NT 4♥= agrees clubs5♣-pass Why would you bid 3H?I'm torn between 3S and 4C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Are you suggesting that 3♠ would be non-forcing? If I were suggesting it before, I will state it now. 3♠ is non-forcing. This isn't the same as the sayc auction of: 1♠ - 2♣ - 3♠ which is forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesleyC Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 East's negative double is fine but I think I slightly prefer 3C which gets the values of the hand across in one bid and guarantees the right lead if we end up defending. I'd bid: 1S (2H) 3C (P)4H* (P) 5C (AP) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 1♠ (2♥) Dbl (PASS)3♠ (PASS) 4♠ (PASS)PASS (PASS) Me too Me three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 I prefer 3C to a neg double since partner can still introduce D with 3D. Switch the minors and ill double. X-------3H3S------4S I think west hand is strong enough for 3H (i dont see why 3S would be forcing ? the neg double can be weakish 7-8 pts). East is strong enough to bid 3S instead of 4S. West is missing AK of C, A of D and the A of H plus he might have a S loser if they are 4-1 so i think hes got an easy soff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 3♠ is non-forcing. This isn't the same as the sayc auction of: 1♠ - 2♣ - 3♠ which is forcing. Can you give an example of a hand that would make a negative double of 2♥, not respond at the two level in SAYC, pass 3♠ after making a negative double, and provide a good play for game opposite this opener? I'm not saying that such hands don't exist, but it seems worthwhile to try to make sure that they do, before choosing a committal action like 4♠ on a slightly flaky trump suit. In my world, a negative double of 2♥ promises enough for an SAYC two-level response, so logically 3♠ is forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 I'm torn between 3♠ or 3♥ response to double. 1♠-(2♥)-X3♥-4♣ 3♥ = any GF4♥-4NT 4♥= agrees clubs5♣-pass Why would you bid 3H?I'm torn between 3S and 4C. Because 4♣ sounds as a 5-5 to me. Playing 2NT artificial, I would double with some 2443 and 2353. I play 3♠ as invitational, a typical hand would be KQJxxxxxAxxKx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 1♠ (2♥) 3♣4♥ 4 NT5♣ Pass 4NT RKB (1430)5♣ 1 (or 4) key card I prefer 3♣ to DBL because it shows a game forcing hand while DBL does not4♥ splinter in support of ♣ as a slam try is more important than rebidding the ♠ I would rebid the ♠ in a pairs tournament Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 3♠ is non-forcing. This isn't the same as the sayc auction of: 1♠ - 2♣ - 3♠ which is forcing. Can you give an example of a hand that would make a negative double of 2♥, not respond at the two level in SAYC, pass 3♠ after making a negative double, and provide a good play for game opposite this opener? I'm not saying that such hands don't exist, but it seems worthwhile to try to make sure that they do, before choosing a committal action like 4♠ on a slightly flaky trump suit. In my world, a negative double of 2♥ promises enough for an SAYC two-level response, so logically 3♠ is forcing. I brought up "not responding at the two level in SAYC" to point out that some might think this is a parallel auction, where I think it isn't. There are hands that would make a negative double of 2♥, but would not make a 2/1 in sayc, i.e., : x, xxx, Axxx, KJxxx and I think this is a clear pass of 3♠ after a negative double. Maybe our standards are different for negative doubles here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Maybe our standards are different for negative doubles here? Yes, they are. I thought we'd already established that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 There are hands that would make a negative double of 2♥, but would not make a 2/1 in sayc, i.e., : x, xxx, Axxx, KJxxx Can't we wait for partner's reopening action with this hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Maybe our standards are different for negative doubles here? Im 100% with Phil on this one. xxxKT9xxAT9xx Pollers in Bridge World make a neg X with this hand or a very similar hand to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sathyab Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 There are hands that would make a negative double of 2♥, but would not make a 2/1 in sayc, i.e., : x, xxx, Axxx, KJxxx Can't we wait for partner's reopening action with this hand?If your hand was slightly weaker, say xx Qx, QJxx, Axxxx and you passed, partner may not reopen as he may easily have length in hearts. He might easily have a 5=3=4=1 or 5=3=1=4 shape. As you have two spades, partner can always bid 2♠ if doesn't care for either minor and has no ♥ stopper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 1♠ (2♥) Dbl (PASS)3♠ (PASS) 4♠ (PASS)PASS (PASS) Me too Me three. Make it four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 There are hands that would make a negative double of 2♥, but would not make a 2/1 in sayc, i.e., : x, xxx, Axxx, KJxxx Can't we wait for partner's reopening action with this hand?If your hand was slightly weaker, say xx Qx, QJxx, Axxxx and you passed, partner may not reopen as he may easily have length in hearts. He might easily have a 5=3=4=1 or 5=3=1=4 shape. As you have two spades, partner can always bid 2♠ if doesn't care for either minor and has no ♥ stopper.None of what you say really applies to the hand Phil gave as an example. There are not two spades so that opener has a safe exit in 3S and there are three hearts instead of two so that opener is less likely to hold length in hearts. If you held Phil's example hand and knew that opener was 53(41), wouldn't you be content to defend 2H (undoubled)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 There are hands that would make a negative double of 2♥, but would not make a 2/1 in sayc, i.e., : x, xxx, Axxx, KJxxx Can't we wait for partner's reopening action with this hand? Give me a heart honor and I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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