1) What is partner doing?

[Double !]

Also, can PD manufacture a 2♦ reverse on less than 4 cards? (I realize that you may not know if PD will do this)

Yes, partner can manufacture a reverse on less than 4 (or 3, or) cards and he/ me has occasionally done so in the past. However, it can only be done when opener knows what strain the hand will likely play in, and can always over-ride any bid that responder makes: in this case, converting diamonds back to spades.

 

DHL :rolleyes:

[mike777]

Does not exist, 3♠ was non-forcing.

Agree. Partner has been smoking noxious substances.

I wish I had been smoking something good. The noxious stuff gives me headaches.

 

I apologize for not anticipating that there might be discussion about whether or not the 3S bid was forcing or not. I was under the impression that this Pd & I had agreed to play it as forcing. Wish I had indicated such in the original post. 'tis an interesting topic for survey.

 

As some have requested responder's hand, here it is: ♠ Q9876, ♥ Qxx, ♦ 7653, ♣ A. This hand may look familiar to some. That was why i was reluctant to post it initially.

 

Again, there were no conventional bids throughout the auction. For example, 3NT was not serious.

 

DHL

Given 3s is game forcing when I can have junk this seems an easy 4c cue over 3s....I got a good hand.

 

after 4c cue now over 4d I now give up with 4s.

[Cascade]

Indeed ♥ Qxx is hardly the robust stopper we need opposite a likely heart shortage.

 

Given that opener is limited by the 1♣ bid it seems that either:

 

1. Your 1♣ openings can be extremely strong for partner to be wanting to cue-bid a shortage when you have shown significant strength in hearts

 

2. Opener has a manufactured reverse with a fitting honour in hearts. I would pick 3=2=2=6 distribution.

 

Something like

 

♠ AKx

♥ Ax

♦ Ax

♣ QJxxxx

 

But the exact hand would depend on what you cue-bidding style is.

[cherdanno]

I changed my mind, I think there are reasonable hands for partner's bidding - s.th. like

♠A ♥AQx ♦KQJx ♠QJxxx.

[Cascade]

I changed my mind, I think there are reasonable hands for partner's bidding - s.th. like

♠A ♥AQx ♦KQJx ♠QJxxx.

Do you often raise partner's five-card suits with stiff ace in support?

[cherdanno]

I changed my mind, I think there are reasonable hands for partner's bidding - s.th. like

♠A ♥AQx ♦KQJx ♠QJxxx.

Do you often raise partner's five-card suits with stiff ace in support?

After a second look at the hand, yes.

[kenrexford]

I changed my mind, I think there are reasonable hands for partner's bidding - s.th. like

♠A ♥AQx ♦KQJx ♠QJxxx.

Do you often raise partner's five-card suits with stiff ace in support?

What are you talking about? Partner mis-sorted his hand and has 6-card support.

[ONEferBRID]

Does not exist, 3♠ was non-forcing.

Agree. Partner has been smoking noxious substances.

I wish I had been smoking something good. The noxious stuff gives me headaches.

 

I apologize for not anticipating that there might be discussion about whether or not the 3S bid was forcing or not. I was under the impression that this Pd & I had agreed to play it as forcing. Wish I had indicated such in the original post. 'tis an interesting topic for survey.

 

As some have requested responder's hand, here it is: ♠ Q9876, ♥ Qxx, ♦ 7653, ♣ A. This hand may look familiar to some. That was why i was reluctant to post it initially.

 

Again, there were no conventional bids throughout the auction. For example, 3NT was not serious.

 

DHL

 

Thx for Responder's hand.

 

Now, what was Opener's hand ?

[Finch]

If 3S was systemically forcing (I certainly don't play it as forcing - it seems a very useful bid to show a minimum reverse with three spades) then opener has some enormous 3046. I don't see how he can have a strong enough 3145. While I think he has one of the top clubs, he isn't cueing it because he wants us to concentrate on our minor suit holdings. May be

 

AKx

-

Axxx

KQJxxx

 

This assume we cue first round controls before second round ones. Partner was encouraged when we didn't cue hearts.

 

On responder's hand, I hate the 3NT bid. 4C seems normal, or 4S if you want to limit your hand. (I would simply bid 4S but that's because I play 3S as nf)

[lilboyman]

Partner has 6 Clubs, 5 Diamonds, 2 Spades and a Heart void. P was willing to play Spades if you had a 6 card suit. Your 3N confirmed a 5 card Spade suit. P now knows this probably plays better in one of the minors and show the 5 Diamonds with the 4 Diamond bid. After your 4 Spades P wants to show the Heart void and get you to make a choice between the minors. Probably, P harbors thoughts of slam in the suit of fit and must have two very good minors.

[bid_em_up]

Partner has 6 Clubs, 5 Diamonds, 2 Spades and a Heart void.  P was willing to play Spades if you had a 6 card suit.  Your 3N confirmed a 5 card Spade suit.  P now knows this probably plays better in one of the minors and show the 5 Diamonds with the 4 Diamond bid.  After your 4 Spades P wants to show the Heart void and get you to make a choice between the minors.  Probably, P harbors thoughts of slam in the suit of fit and must have two very good minors.

If partner held 2-0-5-6, he should have bid 3♦ completing his distribution, and not 3♠. So this holding is out also, imo.

[Double !]

fwiw: i double-checked with my partner for this hand and, yes, we had agreed that the 3S bid by opener was forcing.

 

DHL

[peachy]

fwiw: i double-checked with my partner for this hand and, yes, we had agreed that the 3S bid by opener was forcing.

 

DHL

What will opener bid, under your agreements, if he does _not_ want to force but he has spade support. I am not trying to poke holes in your agreed methods, but this hole is too big to ignore. How do you handle it, by just always going to game or by having higher requirements for a reverse than most people do?

[Double !]

I do not have a satisfactory answer for you. This is not a well-established partnership. In fact, there are a lot of hands that this P and I bid differently. Never really had time to discuss the issue that you raise. I just remembered once passing 3S or 3H on a similar auction and only making 6 because this particular P played the 3M bid as forcing.

 

A lot depends on which suits are involved, the shape of the hand, and the quality of the suits/ ie: trick-taking potential. I usually go with what my P prefers to play (even if I don't like it). So, if reverse followed by support is forcing with whomever my current partner might be, I just might be forced to lie and open 1NT even with a 16/17 count & 3451 or 3415 distro. (again, depending on suit qualities and locations of high cards.)

If 3S is nf, then i bid fsf just like everyone else. But, your question is quite valid and legitimate.

BTW: I never indicated that I have a preference one way or the other. Was just giving the parameters of what this particular partnership had decided. Since 3S was to be forcing and setting spades as trumps, this particular agreement permitted me to bid my hand in a way that made it clear that I needed club control and still not force the bidding to the 6-level.

 

I find the discussion about whether or not the 3S bid is forcing is quite interesting. Just goes to show that not everyone agrees on what bids or sequences are "standard".

 

DHL

[Double !]

Before you laugh and tell me that I'm insane, i would like to state the following:

I AM: Csaba said so!

 

The given bidding is how I bid the opener's hand in my previous post. I held:

♠ AKJ3, ♥ A, ♦ A, ♣ QJ76542. Once i chose to open the hand 1C (my f2f partner suggested 2C) and my partner responded 1S, I wanted to 1st of all get some idea of how many spades he had. Therefore, I created an artificial reverse of 2 D, knowing that he couldn't pass. After he rebid 2S, showing 5+ spades, i now wanted to create a way to find out how many club losers we had without getting past the 5-level. It was fortunate that this particular partner played my 3S bid as forcing. His 3NT rebid (I believe) was intended to show a balanced hand with something in hearts and to mark time as spades were pretty much agreed on as being the trump suit. My 4D bid (rebidding a stiff ace) was intended to give partner a chance to describe his hand further. His 4S bid essentially said that, opposite theoretically 3-card trump support, he didn't feel that he could go past 4S.

And that's OK because I had a game plan. But when I clearly asked for some sort of club control by bidding 5H, he obliged by bidding 6S.

 

Some have said that he should have shown the ace of clubs after I had supported spades. Some might also suggest that he might have bid 6C to show the ace. Well, he and I don't always agree on certain things.

 

So, we managed to get to 6S, making 7 with the club king onside, without any really conventional bids.

 

The fun part for me was being able to bid a stiff ace twice in the auction (partner couldn't alert that- he didn't know) and to bid a second stiff ace one time. To be honest, I couldn't think of another way to do it other than using 4th suit GF on my 3rd bid, but I was concerned that I might lose a valuable level of bidding by doing so.

 

Disclaimer: I was rather tired when this hand occurred. All insanities are hereby attributed to fatigue.

 

DHL

[Fluffy]

I'd prefer splinter in hearts followed bud 5♦, should picture the same avoiding the risk of partner tihnking you don't ahve 4 spades.

[Winstonm]

What is partner doing?

A) Losing his mind

B) The impossible

C) All of the above

 

Answer: C

 

what is partner looking for?

A) A miracle

B) A new partner

C) Where the rest of the cards in the bidding box fell when he knocked it over.

 

Answer: B

 

 

Any idea what Partner hand is?

 

A) Yes, but see above

[ONEferBRID]

I'd prefer splinter in hearts followed bud 5♦, should picture the same avoiding the risk of partner tihnking you don't ahve 4 spades.

I like the splinter idea.... and you can splinter in either red suit at the THREE level--

a jump-reverse splinter:

 

1C - 1S

3H! - 3S

4D - 4S

5D - ??

 

Now you've shown shortness in Hts and two Diam Ctrl cues....

with Spades as trump....

... and a big hand....

...and partner has to be wondering why you didn't go RKC ( 4NT ).

 

Maybe this will induce partner to bid 6S with the A or K of Cl .

 

- - Don - -

Edit : 4D Ctrl cue also denies Cl A or K.

[ArtK78]

Before you laugh and tell me that I'm insane, i would like to state the following:

I AM:  Csaba said so!

 

The given bidding is how I bid the opener's hand in my previous post.  I held:

♠  AKJ3,   ♥  A,    ♦   A,   ♣  QJ76542.  Once i chose to open the hand 1C  (my f2f partner suggested 2C)  and my partner responded 1S,  I wanted to 1st of all get some idea of how many spades he had.  Therefore, I created an artificial reverse of 2 D, knowing that he couldn't pass.  After he rebid 2S, showing 5+ spades, i now wanted to create a way to find out how many club losers we had without getting past the 5-level.  It was fortunate that this particular partner played my 3S bid as forcing.  His 3NT rebid (I believe) was intended to show a balanced hand with something in hearts and to mark time as spades were pretty much agreed on as being the trump suit.  My 4D bid (rebidding a stiff ace) was intended to give partner a chance to describe his hand further.  His 4S bid essentially said that, opposite theoretically 3-card trump support, he didn't feel that he could go past 4S.

And that's OK because I had a game plan.   But when I clearly asked for some sort of club control by bidding 5H, he obliged by bidding 6S. 

 

Some have said that he should have shown the ace of clubs after I had supported spades.  Some might also suggest that he might have bid 6C to show the ace.  Well, he and I don't always agree on certain things.

 

So, we managed to get to 6S, making 7 with the club king onside, without any really conventional bids. 

 

The fun part for me was being able to bid a stiff ace twice in the auction  (partner couldn't alert that- he didn't know) and to bid a second stiff ace one time.   To be honest, I couldn't think of another way to do it other than using 4th suit GF on my 3rd bid, but I was concerned that I might lose a valuable level of bidding by doing so.

 

Disclaimer:  I was rather tired when this hand occurred.  All insanities are hereby attributed to fatigue.

 

DHL

We may share the insanity.

 

I posited in the first response in this thread a hand which was not too far off from the one you held. I had the black suits pretty much spot on, but even I could not envision A A in the red suits.

 

With your hand, 7♠ is odds on if responder has long spades and the singleton ♣A, and is probably and excellent contract opposite QTxx of spades and the singleton ♣A . Perhaps it can be reached if you open 2♣.

[cherdanno]

I'd prefer splinter in hearts followed bud 5♦, should picture the same avoiding the risk of partner tihnking you don't ahve 4 spades.

Risk? You avoid the certainty that partner KNOWS you dont' have 4 spades :(

[Fluffy]

right :(

 

And knowing I have 4 he might bid 6♣/5NT (GSF?) over 5 diamonds to try 7.