Stop, Jumping

[jillybean]

I'm about to make a jump bid in the auction, what is the correct way to use the Stop card?

[jnichols]

Depends on where you are.

 

In the ACBL (and perhaps other places as well)

put out the STOP card

put out your bid

take back the STOP card

opponent waits 10 seconds after your bid to take action

 

Some other places (don't have a list)

put out the STOP Card

put out your bid

wait 10 seconds, then take back the STOP card

 

There may be places where the regulations are different from both of the above examples -- Tell us a location and we can probably find someone with the information.

[jillybean]

ACBL, thanks.

If LHO does not wait 10seconds then partner can break tempo and I wont be restricted?

[jnichols]

If LHO does not wait 10seconds then partner can break tempo and I wont be restricted?

I can't quote a Law or regulation, but my theory is that the 10-second pause is for the table, so if you make a skip bid and LHO doesn't pause then yes, your partner gets the extra think time without restricting you.

 

Perhaps someone can give us a specific Law or Regulation.

[blackshoe]

I'm sure there isn't a specific law. I don't think there's a specific regulation, though that depends on the jurisdiction. I'm pretty sure there isn't in the ACBL.

 

If you make a skip bid, your LHO bids instantly, and your partner takes no more than about 10-12 seconds to choose his call, I would rule there was no BIT by your partner. There was, of course, a BIT by your LHO, and that will constrain his partner. B)

[jillybean]

I'm sure there isn't a specific law. I don't think there's a specific regulation, though that depends on the jurisdiction. I'm pretty sure there isn't in the ACBL.

 

If you make a skip bid, your LHO bids instantly, and your partner takes no more than about 10-12 seconds to choose his call, I would rule there was no BIT by your partner. There was, of course, a BIT by your LHO, and that will constrain his partner. B)

I like that :)

 

Funny stop card incident, I used the stop card, made my bid, LHO looks at the bid, sits back and says, "ok I have to wait the mandatory 10 seconds now".

[LH2650]

If LHO does not wait 10seconds then partner can break tempo and I wont be restricted?

Partner's BIT is still a BIT. I don't like the term "restricted" - you should always do what you think you would have done without partner's hesitation. However, by failing to wait the required 10 seconds, your opponent has committed an irregularity by violating a regulation authorized under Law 80. If the Director determines that your side was damaged (by denying partner time to think), he has the authority to assign an adjusted score under Law 12.

[jillybean]

I disagree. A break in tempo is required after a jump as opposed to an illegal BIT where I am restricted in my choice of bids – “may not choose from logical alternative actions one that could demonstrably be suggested over another by the by the extraneous information’

 

I assume the reason LHO is required to wait 10seconds is to allow my partner to make a bid in tempo wether or not he has had to think 10seconds before making the bid.

 

I see this turns out to be in the wrong forum.

[Double !]

As a precaution, I put the STOP card on the table first, then my bid, and I leave the stop card on the table for about 10 seconds before I remove it.

lol. I have absolutely no idea what this accomplishes other than ensuring that about 10 seconds have passed before my lho slams the red X card on the table.

 

DHL

[jillybean]

As a precaution, I put the STOP card on the table first, then my bid, and I leave the stop card on the table for about 10 seconds before I remove it. 

lol.  I have absolutely no idea what this accomplishes other than ensuring that about 10 seconds have passed before my lho slams the red X card on the table.

 

DHL

It alerts my partner to the fact that I'm about to overbid my hand.

[jillybean]

If LHO does not wait 10seconds then partner can break tempo and I wont be restricted?

I can't quote a Law or regulation, but my theory is that the 10-second pause is for the table, so if you make a skip bid and LHO doesn't pause then yes, your partner gets the extra think time without restricting you.

 

Perhaps someone can give us a specific Law or Regulation.

delete

[jnichols]

My way of thinking: The mandatory 10-second pause is there to give everyone at the table a chance to absorb the meaning of the skip bid and adjust their plans for the auction. (Everyone excpet the skip bidder of course) So if LHO doesn't pause then partner of the skip bidder should be allowed the extra time.

[Mbodell]

An important other information in the ACBL is that you don't have to use the stop card, but you do have to be consistent (if you ever use the stop card, you always have to use it). And regardless of what you do with the stop card your LHO must pause 10 seconds and appear to think every time you make a skip bid. So if your RHO makes a skip bid and doesn't use a stop card you still should count to 10 (silently!) before making your call.

 

IME people in general are very bad about pausing regardless of the use of the stop card.

[hrothgar]

Around here, if you have a maximum you use the stop card...

[blackshoe]

Partner's BIT is still a BIT.

This is easy enough. Just make your skip bid, and if LHO calls in less than ten seconds, call the director. Partner will have plenty of time to think about what to do. :rolleyes:

you should always do what you think you would have done without partner's hesitation.

Not so. When you have UI you must carefully avoid taking advantage of it — and making the call you think you would have made without the UI doesn't always do that.

[blackshoe]

I assume the reason LHO is required to wait 10seconds is to allow my partner to make a bid in tempo wether or not he has had to think 10 seconds before making the bid.

That may be part of it, but the primary reason is to avoid problems from the opponents' tempo breaks. Don't forget that a fast (for the situation and player concerned) call is just as much a BIT as a slow one.

I see this turns out to be in the wrong forum.

 

Yes. I don't have moderator powers in here or I'd have moved it already.

[paulg]

In Scotland the use of the Stop card is mandatory. In England and Wales I thought it was mandatory, as does everyone, but checking I see that the Orange Book says that it 'should' be used. However everyone uses it and the regulations are clear that the next hand must pause for ~10 seconds whatever.

 

In the ACBL, I'm sure it is the optional element of using the card that has led to the abuse where people use the Stop card to wake partner up, or at least the widespread belief that this is what people are doing.

 

As Adam Wildavsky has written, the ACBL's policy has created this position and he advocated moving to the compulsory use of the Stop card.

 

Paul

[gwnn]

Around here, if you have a maximum you use the stop card...

That's certainly a better method than the standard way, stop card=minimum, stop bidding.

[gnasher]

Partner's BIT is still a BIT.

This is easy enough. Just make your skip bid, and if LHO calls in less than ten seconds, call the director. Partner will have plenty of time to think about what to do. :unsure:

Another possibility is to agree with your partner that if the opponent doesn't pause after the stop warning, your partner will always pause instead. You may need to explain to the opponents that this is what you do, so as to avoid accidentally misleading them.

 

This procedure may also encourage them to follow the rules in future.

[helene_t]

Sometimes people will play the stop card and then start thinking about which jump bid to do. It's important to think before playing the stop card so that at least it isn't obvious that the alternative you had in mind was also a jump bid.

 

However, if you play the stop card and then change your mind to some non-jump bid (or even a pass or a double), you can still do that, but of course create UI for partner.

[JoAnneM]

From the Tech Manual - which answers a few of the questions, one of which is that 10 seconds is not always the norm.

 

SKIP BID - WARNINGS

1. How and When Made

Players should protect their rights and the opponent's by announcing,

prior to making any subsequent bid that skips one or more levels of

bidding. Proper procedure is:

a. Place the stop card so that LHO sees it (the skip bidder is

responsible for gaining LHO's attention). b.The skip bid is made.

c.The stop card is replaced in the bidding box.

 

2. Skip Bidder

The skip bid warning may not be used to alert partner that a

strength-showing bid is being made or not being made. The warning

should be used all the time. The tournament director may assess a

procedural penalty (Law 90) for failure to comply.

 

3. Opponents of Skip Bidder

a. All Players

When RHO has announced a skip bid, the player following the skip

bidder must wait for a suitable interval (about 10 seconds). In

waiting the player's manner must be one that suggests he is an active

participant in the auction (the hand should be studied during the

pause). Any obvious display of disinterest is most improper.

b. Experienced Players

Experienced players are expected to maintain proper tempo whether a skip bid is announced or not.

[jillybean]

FaNtAsTiC, is this manual available online?

[jnichols]

Best way to get them is to download ACBLScore from the ACBL website (www.acbl.org).

 

There is a version online at http://www.bridgehands.com/Laws/ACBL/Duplicate/Tech_Files/ but I suspect it (or at least portions of it) is a few years out of date.

[JoAnneM]

I use the Tech Manual from ACBLscore. Switch to Tournament Mode and look under Help. I would like to think it is up to date.

[jillybean]

ACBLScore seems to be for directors, I was thinking guidelines for new players;

 

- How to use a stop card

- How to protect your rights when the opps break tempo

- What to do when your partner has given an incorrect explanation

- What is tempo and can you pause to think before you bid.

- What to do if you have forgotten to alert.

- What to do when you discover you have revoked.

- What do I do if you think there has been UI during an auction

 

Other than trying to find this in the laws of DCB, and who in their right mind would do that, I dont know where to get this information.