very bad agreement

[gwnn]

2♠-p-3♣-3♥

p-?

 

KJTx

Tx

AKxx

T9x

 

3♣ was natural non forcing denying a spade fit. It's all red at imps. You can't bid 3♠ since that would ask for a spade stop (hence the title).

[Cascade]

4♥ looks normal.

 

3NT might work.

[helene_t]

3NT, since in 4♥ they probably start with a spade ruff.

[Phil]

3N.

 

Pard isn't barred. If pard has some shape and 6 hearts, I would expect a 4♥ call.

[Fluffy]

yeah 3NT, but 4 heart can easilly be right.

[neilkaz]

Another 3nt bidder.

[kenrexford]

3NT.

 

If 3S asks for a spade stopper, then 3NT shows a spade stopper. You obviously won't bid 3NT missing both. So, 3NT shows a spade stopper but does not show a club stopper.

 

The question, then, is how to distinguish hands with spades and clubs stopped from hands with just spades stopped.

 

That solution, IMO, is a matter of there being no way to show both, so you have to pick one. 3NT either shows both or just shows spades.

 

Then, you have to decide which comes up more often. Intuitively, I think the "I have spades but not clubs" comes up more often than "I have both."

 

But, then you have to decide whether 3NT as a call wins more often when you have both (passing being a good bet) or when you have just spades stopped (3NT gets pulled a lot).

 

In the end, I cannot work this out. So, I bid 3NT because I want to.

[Codo]

With one stopper you may try 3 NT???

 

If you hold both stoppers you bid 3 NT!!

 

3 NT will end the bidding as long as partner has no real one or two suiter. He won't take us out because of 6 Hearts and a singelton club.

 

I go for 3 NT. The chance that partner has two spades is bigger then the chance that he has just one.

[gnasher]

Intuitively, 3♠ should ask for a club stopper. In a crowded auction we should use the available space for finding out the most important information. Clubs is the suit that they wanted to play in, so the one where we're most likely to lack a stop. Responder raised the level to avoid playing in spades, so it's reasonable for our methods to assume that between us we have spades stopped.

 

3NT could be ridiculous, even if 4♥ is suffering a spade ruff. Partner isn't going to remove 3NT with xx AKQxxx Qxxx x or x KQJxxx Qxxx Ax

[oxyde]

3NT

 

How often does the 3♣ bid (NF!) come from AKQJxx(...) ?

Almost never

In all other cases 3NT has chances, either with a stopper from my p or a blockage.

[ochinko]

Intuitively, 3♠ should ask for a club stopper.

Isn't this more than a mere intuition but actually standard with no known fit, and searching for NT? When opps have bid one suit, que-bidding ask for a stopper, but with two suits, you bid the one that you stop asking for a stopper in the other.

[pooltuna]

I would try an ugly 3NT

[MFA]

3♠, regardeless of what you say our agreements are. I really want to involve partner here even if it is imperfect.

Second choice is 4♥. 3NT is gambling on running hearts & a club stopper & 4 losers in spades (incl ruff(s)), too narrow a target if partner can't bid it over 3♠.

[Tomi2]

yeah, lucky that I play this bid in polish style. 3s= I stop one suit, if you stop the other try 3nt. think the percentages that partner ALSO has a spade stopper but not a club one are much lower than having the right agreement about showing and asking (that is 50-50)

[helene_t]

I think 3♠ should show a stopper in the suit you are sitting over, which in this case happens to be spades. If 3♠ here shows a club stopper, it won't work if it's a positional stopper since it would wrong-side 3NT. So 3♠ showing s spade stopper will allow you to find a successful 3NT more often.

[aguahombre]

I think 3♠ should show a stopper in the suit you are sitting over, which in this case happens to be spades. If 3♠ here shows a club stopper, it won't work if it's a positional stopper since it would wrong-side 3NT. So 3♠ showing s spade stopper will allow you to find a successful 3NT more often.

this works if you have a spade stopper. the positional concerns if you bid 3NT without a spade stopper are still there. Or do you just forget about NT unless you have spades stopped? Hey, that works.

[Phil]

I have news for all of the 3♠ bidders.

 

Partner is never bidding 3N.

[akhare]

3N for me...

[MFA]

Partner is never bidding 3N.

Sad. It's known to be a winning contract from time to time. :)

 

Maybe if I give him an intensive course in puling up the 3NT-card he will learn how to do it?! It is not that hard, I think... :)

[Codo]

Partner is never bidding 3N.

Sad. It's known to be a winning contract from time to time. :unsure:

 

Maybe if I give him an intensive course in puling up the 3NT-card he will learn how to do it?! It is not that hard, I think... :blink:

But as the OP stated, you have a CLEAR agreement:

 

3 Spade asks for a spade stopper. You should change this after this hand. But for this hand, you should not change the methods during the bidding.

 

Bidding 3 Spade here will not help at all.

[rd6789]

3NT - partner can't have a big red 2-suiter as he would have X'd so chances are he has something in clubs. I think 9 tricks may be the limit

 

I do agree that usually 3S here would/should show a stopper with 2 suits bid by opps.

 

Also partner will pass 3NT with 6H so it's a bit of a gamble, but hey opps are there to make life difficult

[helene_t]

Or do you just forget about NT unless you have spades stopped? Hey, that works.

Yes I think so. Partner would need a non-positional spade stopper. Or alternatively, if we use 3♠ as asking for a spade stopper (or just for stopper in one suit, hoping that it isn't the same suit we stop as Tomi2 plays it, I would need a non-positional club stopper). The 3♣ bid often serves a lead-directing purpose so if I have a stopper it is more likely to be the king than the ace.

[gnasher]

Intuitively, 3♠ should ask for a club stopper.

Isn't this more than a mere intuition but actually standard with no known fit, and searching for NT? When opps have bid one suit, que-bidding ask for a stopper, but with two suits, you bid the one that you stop asking for a stopper in the other.

Suppose that the auction had gone

  2♣ [weak] pass 2♠ 3♥

Now 3♠ should ask for a spade stop, but in your rule-based approach it would still ask for a spade stop.

[barmar]

Intuitively, 3♠ should ask for a club stopper.

Isn't this more than a mere intuition but actually standard with no known fit, and searching for NT? When opps have bid one suit, que-bidding ask for a stopper, but with two suits, you bid the one that you stop asking for a stopper in the other.

That logic only works when you have room to make either cue bid below 3NT. In the actual auction, only one cue bid is available.

[Tcyk]

2♠-p-3♣-3♥

p-?

 

KJTx

Tx

AKxx

T9x

 

3♣ was natural non forcing denying a spade fit. It's all red at imps. You can't bid 3♠ since that would ask for a spade stop (hence the title).

This is off the subject but just how often would someone play 3♣ in response to a weak-two bid as non-forcing? I know that in many ways I am old fashioned but I was taught RONF; raise only non-forcing. I had this very problem occur in an indy recently. I had a solid side suit, support for partner's major, and good controls. I wanted to investigate slam and elected to go slow. Partner passed my 3-level bid. I made three overtricks. Honestly, I thought that virtually everyone played RONF.