A claim with a difference

[blackshoe]

director said "just play it, remember where you are".

"I thought I was in a place where the laws of bridge are followed. I guess I was mistaken."

 

:rolleyes:

[bluejak]

I was suggestng encouraging claiming, not bullying players into claiming.

[blackshoe]

Who said anything about bullying anyone?

[Cyberyeti]

director said "just play it, remember where you are".

"I thought I was in a place where the laws of bridge are followed. I guess I was mistaken."

 

:unsure:

I thought that, but didn't say it. No need to wind up another director, particularly as we'd scored up 16 of the 28 boards in a multiple teams and were +87 by then ...

[blackshoe]

That's why I used that smily, cyber. I wouldn't actually say it, either. Well, I might comment along those lines in passing on my way out the door. Particularly as I wouldn't likely be coming back.

[Finch]

As for club bridge, there are a great number of patrons that are offended when an opponent claims, even to the point of being offensive and wasting huge amounts of time. They came to play the cards, and that means all 52 of them.

This is so true.

 

But the truth is that a large proportion of claims are faulty and the reason they are not disputed is that it is an intimidating situation for the other side to issue a protest.

 

I agree that a large number of claims are faulty (though I don't think it is a large proportion of total claims, I think you forget the many claims with 2-3 tricks left when one hand is high). However, the reason they aren't disputed is not because of intimidation but because they work in practice. Most faulty claims ignore what might happen if a suit breaks very badly. Usually that doesn't happen so the claim is 'valid' for the actual layout.

[bluejak]

Who said anything about bullying anyone?

When such things happen sumon the TD. After obtaining the facts the TD should should quote the relevant L74 and state that because there was nothing to think about what has happened is an example of unduly slow play which is likely to iritate the opponents and otherwise improperly delay the game- and should be carefully avoided. In this instance the penalty is .1 matchpoint. Ask if they understand the reason for the penalty and caution that in the future the penalty will be large.

[TMorris]

I was playing in the EBU Men's Pairs about 4 years ago in a 1NT contract. The opponents took the first 6 tricks and (not remembering how many diamonds were left as I couldn't do anything about the opponents cashing them) I was waiting for the next card to be played. When it was played I claimed. I was then told off by the pro for not claiming earlier immediately after trick 6 (his partner had played out the diamonds and though for 30 seconds or so before playing the next card). We finished the board and the round ahead of the room.

 

As you may gather it's something I have not forgotten (or forgiven).

 

I've also. not long after starting to play, had situations in a local green pointed event where a much better player claims, briefly shows their cards and then puts them away and we didn't know enough to call the director. Each of us couldn't see a trick separately but together we had one. Claiming can involve an element of bullying/cheating by more experienced players.

 

The requirement to claim is fine. The attitude of some people about claims is not.

[blackshoe]

What "requirement to claim"? There no such thing in the laws. Nor in any regulation of which I'm aware. One is certainly permitted to claim, and there are those who believe that should be done as early as possible, but that belief, even by experts, does not make it law.

[bluejak]

There is an effective requirement to claim if you know all the rest of the tricks are yours [Law 74B4] and a claim is suitable.

 

But certainly there is never a requirement for anyone to claim who has any difficulty in claiming.

 

Much depends on exactly what is said: if you really might have claimed earlier and an opponent mentions it in a reasonably friendly way, that is fair enough: if he is nasty about it call the TD and say that he is upsetting you.

 

Similarly some people do claim without showing their hands and other intimidating ways. Be brave! Do what I sometimes do, say something like "Could you explain that again" even though he did not explain it first time! :rolleyes:

 

Of course the attitude of some players is what is wrong with the game whether in relation to claims or anything else. :(

[blackshoe]

Can't disagree with that, David.

 

Heh. Once, I claimed at trick 12. After we settled that, one of my opponents (a very good player) asked me, conversationally, why I didn't claim at trick 9. I told him "because I didn't see it until trick 12". :rolleyes: