Forcing pass when you know you are not playing thi

[Fluffy]

J9x

x

Axxx

KQJxx

 

nobody vul south dealer

 

1♣-(ps)-1♦-(1♠)

2♦-(2♠)-3♠-(4♠)

---

 

On this position it is clear for you and probably to partner as well that you are never playing 4 spades doubled, does this modify the meaning of pass, double or 5m?

[louisg]

Why would it be clear to partner that we are never playing 4Sx? If my hand were something like KJx x Axxx QJxxx (assuming that's an opening bid in your style), I would want to suggest 4Sx as a final contract and would expect partner to honor that much of the time. Here I bid 5D, since I know I don't want to defend and also don't want to suggest extra values. Pass, as always in these auctions, would suggest doubt, except if you are planning to pass and pull to show slam interest (the commonly accepted interpretation, though not universal).

[aguahombre]

Good question. Whether I agree with your premise that 4SX could never be the final contract or not, This hand looks like a double. Your shortness is in hearts, not spades. You have one less club than you might have (depending on opening minor choice agreements), and a weak opener. Seems like double informs partner of these things so he can make the wrong decision rather than you.

[kennye]

Allthough aprtner's 4S was an attempt as ownership, it is not clear who's hand it might be. Partner could easily hold x-A??-KQ????-A? and slam would be laydown. I will bid 4NT as a "last train" hedge to try and describe a short heart, good clubs and 4-card diamonds. Let partner make the last decision.

[Phil]

I think you mean you are never defending 4♠ undoubled.

 

3♠ establishes a game force. With no wastage in spades, a side singleton, and good ODR, I think 5♦ is clear.

[dake50]

I play S-Qbid as 'our hand' forcing passes ON. So 4S-X real possible. Why show defense if penalty never chosen? Just D-raise to total number of tricks on offensive fit.

 

So your point applies if 4D jump raise instead of S Q-bid. Now opener needs MUCH better spades under 1S overcall --that meaning is so rare as to be pointless to reserve X for that. Try 5D raise = no S-control, up to partner; P =S-single; X =SA/void as Rosenkrantz.

[OleBerg]

I am not a strong believer in RKCB, but this seems like the perfect hand for it.

 

(And of course defending is an option in this sequence. Though naturally not on the actual hand.)

[louisg]

I am not a strong believer in RKCB, but this seems like the perfect hand for it.

And if partner shows 2? Are you SURE that he's void in spades??

[peachy]

I am not a strong believer in RKCB, but this seems like the perfect hand for it.

 

(And of course defending is an option in this sequence. Though naturally not on the actual hand.)

RKCB really? If partner void or singleton in spades, why did he bid 3S to ask if we can play NT (I assume this is what it meant)? With GF hand and spade singleton he could have bid something more clear like 4S splinter, a new suit, RKC, or something after we have established a fit in diamonds. It sounds like opponents have good spades and are bidding on air, but it is not out of the picture that responder has doubleton spade.

 

Anyway, I Dbl to say I suggest defending. If that gets overruled, then it probably means we have slam and that the 3S bid did have a singleton spade afterall. Void is quite unlikely in the given auction.

[Cascade]

IMPs or MPs?

 

Partner is more likely to try for 3NT at MPs with spade shortage (singleton) and less likely at IMPs.

[OleBerg]

I am not a strong believer in RKCB, but this seems like the perfect hand for it.

And if partner shows 2? Are you SURE that he's void in spades??

Oops, miscounted (Maybe that's why I don't believe in RKCB, to hard to count those high numbers :rolleyes: ).

 

Have to contend myself with 5♣.

 

And no, I am not sure he has single (or void) in spades, but it is very likely. And anytime he has, we have to play some number of diamonds. And if I pass (and respect his double), we will not do that all the time.