jillybean Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Playing 2/1 partner opens 1M , with a gf xx42 hand do you start with 2♣ or 2♦? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 how about a third choice for us old fuddies who show 5 with both minor suit bids, and don't play j2n and can use 2NT the old fashioned way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 4+♦ WTP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 2C, clubs or bal GF. If I don't have that agreement but am playing with an expert I will assume it. If I don't have that agreement and am playing with a non expert or old fashioned person I would bid 2D (and hate it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 2C, clubs or bal GF. If I don't have that agreement but am playing with an expert I will assume it. If I don't have that agreement and am playing with a non expert or old fashioned person I would bid 2D (and hate it). Thats good! When I play this at the club people can't believe it, I thought I'd picked up another bad habit. I like 1M:2♣ gf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 how about a third choice for us old fuddies who show 5 with both minor suit bids, and don't play j2n and can use 2NT the old fashioned way? Old fuddie duddies dont play 2/1 do they. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 5+ is standard in nearly all my partnerships, and I wish it were in the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 how about a third choice for us old fuddies who show 5 with both minor suit bids, and don't play j2n and can use 2NT the old fashioned way? Old fuddie duddies dont play 2/1 do they. :) this one does, but not j2n. Still the system is a bit souped up, and seems to work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I think this (agreeing to 2+♣, 5+♦) almost requires artificial follow-ups to 2♣. Some of them can get pretty complicated (comparable in length to the whole acbl sayc booklet). jmoo here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Looks like I am old fashioned here, given that I have support for partner and am gonna bid 2/3 of his mayor next, I think 2 diamonds will help partner to evaluate much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Another option: 1♥-2♦ is 5+. With 3343 bid 2♣.1♠-2♦ is 4+ if 2♣ is naturalish. 2♣ on a doubleton goes too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 but helene, there is people who wishes to bid 1♥-2♦ with 4243 to show the GF values and save space (I have seen a couple of times where it would had worked pretty well, but I didn't yet try it myself). Anyway, I am with you, I would also bid 2♣ with 3343. If you normally bid 2 clubs on doubleton I guess you need an artificial bid after 1M-2♣-3♣ that says we do not have a fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Fluffy, opener never supports ♣'s after 1M:2♣ Their options are 2M (could be minimum hand, not 6M!), 2oM, 2D, 2N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 oh, great lol. But never say never jilly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 oh, great lol. But never say never jilly. Youre right I shouldnt say never, 3♣ is fine when you are 7006 :) By keeping 2♦ as full 5 cards you know immediately if you have a ♦ fit, perhaps double fit if you have bid 2♦ on the way to supporting partners major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 but helene, there is people who wishes to bid 1♥-2♦ with 4243 to show the GF values and save space People who wouldn't bid 1S with that example must be playing flannery, or don't trust their follow-up bidding. I cannot imagine going out of my way to show an unbalanced hand with a balanced hand. The saving of bidding room is an illusion if partner gets a distorted picture in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Kathryn, in the relays Han taught me 1♠-2♣3♣ showed a good hand with 5-5 (and I think it's something that is usual in this style). Why not bid 3♣ with 5-5? You can describe your hand relatively cheaply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Playing 2/1 partner opens 1M , with a gf xx42 hand do you start with 2♣ or 2♦?I bid 2♥ if my partner's major was spades, as I must have at least 5 hearts if my shape is xx42. (We have other gf bids with 3 card trump support.)Similarly if partner's major is hearts, I bid 1NT (5+ spades, unlimited, or you would bid 1♠ unlimited if not playing Kaplan inversion). This means that 1M 2m is a 5 card suit. Much simpler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Agree that relays is better but even if just bidding natural I find 2C with bal or clubs to be fine/good/much better than bidding 2D on bal hands with 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Agree that relays is better but even if just bidding natural I find 2C with bal or clubs to be fine/good/much better than bidding 2D on bal hands with 4. If playing natural, should 3♣ show 4 or 5? Also how about opener's splinters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlall Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Agree that relays is better but even if just bidding natural I find 2C with bal or clubs to be fine/good/much better than bidding 2D on bal hands with 4. If playing natural, should 3♣ show 4 or 5? Also how about opener's splinters? 4 and 4. If partner has 2 clubs he will always have 3 card support for your major, if partner has 4 clubs he will always have 3 card support unless he is 2443 in which case he can usually just bid 3N or 4N next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Deafult 2♣. However, 2♦ if there is a tactical advantage (rare). For example, with Qxx-AKxx-AQJ10-Jx, there is something to be said for 2♦ for me because my next call will be a fairly accurate fit bid showing two of the top three hearts, three of the top four diamonds, and no black controls. With a big HCP hand like this, it seems fairly reasonable to approach the hand this way. More appealing if actually 2542. I could imagine other layouts where 2♦ might seem more tactically advantageous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Agree that relays is better but even if just bidding natural I find 2C with bal or clubs to be fine/good/much better than bidding 2D on bal hands with 4. If you bid 2♣ with Balanced or clubs then you are not playing "natural". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted August 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Playing 2/1 partner opens 1M , with a gf xx42 hand do you start with 2♣ or 2♦?I bid 2♥ if my partner's major was spades, as I must have at least 5 hearts if my shape is xx42. (We have other gf bids with 3 card trump support.)Similarly if partner's major is hearts, I bid 1NT (5+ spades, unlimited, or you would bid 1♠ unlimited if not playing Kaplan inversion). This means that 1M 2m is a 5 card suit. Much simpler. What do you bid after partner opens 1♠ and you hold gf 2443, unsuitable for 3nt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Although a lot of the best and/or most frequent posters on BBF seem to favor 2♣ on these hands, it may be worth mentioning that my informal poll of local experts came out pretty strongly in favor of 2♦. Obviously there are merits to both approaches and this may be somewhat impacted by where I live, but responding 2♣ on 2443 hands is not nearly so mainstream as it may appear from posts in this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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